UMFF fans! Need tricks of the trade on taming this beast!

[Knightfall]

I recently had my 6 month appt with my sleep doc. One thing we discussed was my fairly regular habit of mouth breathing/mouth leaks. This was initially discovered by my wife, but on occasion I have wakened myself with that unnerving blast of CPAP air rushing out of my mouth. I gave the chin strap a half hearted attempt with no success, and my sleep doc agreed that the chin straps aren't usually very effective (I say usually because I have read some posts here stating otherwise).

My sleep doc suggested trying a full face mask, and wrote out a prescription for one. At the DME, I was presented with two masks; the Fisher and Paykel HC431 and the Ultra-Mirage. Both masks had good and bad qualities about them, but based upon what I have read here, I took home the UMFF.

Last night, I decided to give it a try. I fell asleep fine, but awoke about 2 hours later with a painful pressure in my jaw and on the bridge of my nose.
I shut down the CPAP,and checked the stats on the LCD; leakage was up around 0.32 l/s. I then went to the bathroom to see what physical damage I had inflicted on myself. I had a minor red welt on the bridge of my nose, but nothing else.

I went back to bed with the UMFF a little looser, but every movement produced major leaks. I switched back to my Activa, got about 3 hours of decent sleep (don't remember mouthbreathing), and then got up for work.

So night one of UMFF usage wasn't too successful for me. I am going to wait until the weekend to give it another try, but I had some questions for you UMFF users out there who have had success with this mask.

1. Are there any helpful tips around using this mask?

2. Is a medium a reasonable size for an average adult male face?

I know the "size" question is a tough one to answer, but I'm just throwing this out because the RT made it sound like you'd have to have a part time job in the circus to wear a large. As I wear a large Activa, I kinda guessed I'd also require a large UMFF. Thanks for any help offered, Ken

[tooly125]

I tried the UMFF for three nights but did not like it.
Mine seemed to leave the bridge of my nose alone but I did not like the pressure on my lower jaw.
If the bridge of your nose gets a welt from one night you either have the wrong mask for yourself or the wrong size.

By the way I had the lager size and never have worked for the circus!

[rested gal]

Ken, since you have quite a few posts to your credit, I guess you've already read a good bit about ways to stop mouth air leaks and mouth breathing, and still be able to wear the regular mask that's working well for you. I suppose you've either tried or ruled out taping the mouth. Hope you get the UMFF working better.

Moleskin stuck to strategic spots along the cushion perimeter might help plug the worst leaks. Or perhaps a gel "heel hugger" (idea from IBTeri) fitting into the bridge of the nose part of the mask would help, if leaks toward the eyes are the main problem.

This link is for others who might have the same issue and don't want to switch to a FF (full face) mask:

viewtopic.php?t=8011
Links to: Mouth leaks - Air Leaks - Tape - DIY Guard

[Snoredog]

I've used that mask for 3 years now, think the key to the UMFF is not over tightening the straps and leaving a crease in the cushion or it will leak worse.

If you are getting red marks on the bridge of your nose that should be an indicator you may be too tight. You need to use the pivot and tilt the mask out at the top to relieve some of the pressure on the nose.

All you want to do is stop it from leaking into the eyes which is not good.

Are you sure you are 32L/s or Litres per minute? My 7-day avgerage with that mask is 34L/m which is good.

I don't get any red marks, don't need mole skin on the mask, I get some leaks when my mouth drops during REM but I don't worry about it, if they get too bad the Alert feature on the machine will let me know.

Size:
Sizing is critical on that mask. You determine the size by measuring the distance with a ruler from the center of your eye to the center of the chin in the indention with your mouth naturally closed. Compare that measurement with the center of the cushion on the mask. Your measurement should fall inside the cushion measurement. Next you measure the wide of the mouth with it naturally closed, that width measurement should fall within the inside of the center-to-center of the cushion that seats with the face.

Next month SomnoTech will be releasing their Full Face version, if it is anything like the nasal version it should be pretty good and best of all very quiet.

[Vader]

I recently had my 6 month appt with my sleep doc. One thing we discussed was my fairly regular habit of mouth breathing/mouth leaks. This was initially discovered by my wife, but on occasion I have wakened myself with that unnerving blast of CPAP air rushing out of my mouth. I gave the chin strap a half hearted attempt with no success, and my sleep doc agreed that the chin straps aren't usually very effective (I say usually because I have read some posts here stating otherwise).

My sleep doc suggested trying a full face mask, and wrote out a prescription for one. At the DME, I was presented with two masks; the Fisher and Paykel HC431 and the Ultra-Mirage. Both masks had good and bad qualities about them, but based upon what I have read here, I took home the UMFF.

Last night, I decided to give it a try. I fell asleep fine, but awoke about 2 hours later with a painful pressure in my jaw and on the bridge of my nose.
I shut down the CPAP,and checked the stats on the LCD; leakage was up around 0.32 l/s. I then went to the bathroom to see what physical damage I had inflicted on myself. I had a minor red welt on the bridge of my nose, but nothing else.

I went back to bed with the UMFF a little looser, but every movement produced major leaks. I switched back to my Activa, got about 3 hours of decent sleep (don't remember mouthbreathing), and then got up for work.

So night one of UMFF usage wasn't too successful for me. I am going to wait until the weekend to give it another try, but I had some questions for you UMFF users out there who have had success with this mask.

1. Are there any helpful tips around using this mask?

2. Is a medium a reasonable size for an average adult male face?

I know the "size" question is a tough one to answer, but I'm just throwing this out because the RT made it sound like you'd have to have a part time job in the circus to wear a large. As I wear a large Activa, I kinda guessed I'd also require a large UMFF. Thanks for any help offered, Ken

I use a medium standard Ultra Mirage™ FF mask, and I love it.
However, I used to use an Activa, which I wore a large.

Try not to wear the mask too tight, because it's really not necessary.
It's also a good idea to wash it daily for the best seal.

If you're having trouble with the bridge of your nose in spite of adjusting the bridge piece, I would put a small piece of Nexcare Gentle Paper Tape over the area of your nose that is affected. It really does help.
For the soreness that you already have, some Aquaphor can be very helpful in healing the area.

I've tried several FF masks, and so far I feel the UMFF can't be beat.

Stick with it!

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): activa, fisher and paykel, HC431, CPAP, DME, seal, Prescription

[Knightfall]

Guys (and one Rested Gal),

I really appreciate the input. Starting from the top:

Tooly - I definitely experienced that jaw pressure sensation you spoke of, and I believe that it more than anything caused the initial awakening. As far as the welt on the nose, I had a period of about 5 days when I first started therapy with the Activa where I'd make a misadjustment, wake up with an angry red welt on the bridge of the nose, make another adjustment, and then finally, voila, just right. As far as the circus comment, thanks for seeing the humor in it. The RT (nice guy, btw) kinda laughed when I brought up the topic of me needing a large, and said something about for it to fit around my mouth correctly, the upper part of the mask would be over my eyes. Sounds exaggerated; I will definitely take Snoredog's advice and take the measurements to see if a medium is my true size.

Rested Gal, I have not totally eliminated the concept of mouth taping as a fix. Matter of fact, I tried it one night at the beginning of November, and getting my stats off the LCD, it was the best AHI data I have had since starting therapy (AHI=1.5, HI=1.2). One of the main reasons I liked the doc's suggestion of trying a ff is to have something to get me through the cold/flu season. If I could get it to work on a regular basis and take care of my mouth breathing occurences, even better.

Snoredog - Glad to hear you've had such success with this mask; that's encouraging. I will make adjustments on the pivot and play with strap tightness to get the fitting right. My biggest concern was do I have the right size; I could make adjustments for weeks, and if it's not sized properly, it would be a complete waste of time and precious sleep.
As far as the leakage data, the only data I can obtain is from the LCD of my S8 Elite. It reads out in l/s; comparing it to your 34 l/m (or 0.56 l/s if I'm doing the conversion correctly), 0.32 l/s wasn't too bad for the UMFF (of course my 0.32 is after nulling out the UMFF's inherent leakage). And I will make sure to check out the Sommnotech product upon its release.

Vader - I want to thank you for your great review on the UMFF. (viewtopic.php?t=13710&highlight=umff+review)
I read this back in Sept and being an Activa user also surmised that the UMFF might also be a good option. I wished this thing employed that active cell technology also, but I do like a lot of the other similar features. I will try it again, but not on a work night!

Thanks again everybody, Ken

[Wulfman]

Ken,

I'm another devoted UMFF user.....18 months and counting.....same mask, seals, headgear.....seems to get more comfortable as time goes on. Have never had any kind of "physical damage" from it. I wear the top straps loose so the forehead piece (set in the most vertical position) just barely touches my forehead and most of the tension is on the lower straps.....but not too much tension. It takes some experimenting to find the "just right" tension. I wear the bottom part pushed up as far as possible to my lower lip.....this keeps my lower jaw from trying to drop and keeps any pressure off the bridge of my nose (which keeps me from getting the feeling of having my nasal breathing restricted).

Here's the link to CPAP.COM's mask sizing guide. You'll need to go to #5 and then get out a ruler/tape measure and do the measurements. In my case, I was on the borderline (according to the chart) between the medium and large.....I went with the large (standard) and am very glad I did.

https://www.cpap.com/cpap-mask-sizing.php

Best wishes,

Den

[dsm]

Re UMFF,

I'd be lost without it (in fact I have 2 spares )

With regular bouts of nasal congestion, I have to resort to mouth breathing at times. Nasal sprays only work for so long before we need to give them a rest.

Mine fits pretty well & I don't get that many leaks - my nightly data generally reads very well re leaks.

BUT!, I always had trouble from 15cms up & that sort of pressure requires clamping the mask unaturally tightly. Then I don't like it.

Good luck

DSM

[Adoptivma]

I had the same mouth breathing problem.
I don't know if this helps, but I read up on reveiws of the UMFF & the Fisher and Paykel HC431. Reviews I read were much more in favor of the FP HC431, so I went with it. The FP comes with 3 different sized cusions, so you can try out each one and see which works best (all 3 cushions work with the same mask!) The first night was an adjustment because I wasn't used to the full face mask, but once I realized that it had to be seated snug under my chin, it worked great and I haven't had a problem since.

[Julie]

Hi, just to add more fuel here... I recently tried the FP 432 FF (the new one) and it's wonderful! There is a nice fat pad of very airy foam between you and the mask frame so you don't feel a thing (and neither does your nose). If you can get fitted for one, give it a try.

[snufflepgs]

I've had the same experience as DSM. It seals fine for me, even through my ususal tossing and turning, until my Auto hits about 14, when I wake up to a torrent of air rushing out from under the mask. Nothing I do with the pressure that high will get the mask to seal back on my face. I've only been using APAP about a week, now, so I don't know if you can draw many conclusions from my limited experience.

[Knightfall]

I am always impressed by the outpouring of useful information from the people who use this forum. Many thanks.

Wulfman, the more users such are yourself who say they use a large, the more frustrated I am with the response I got from the RT. If he would have just shown me a medium compared to a large side by side (there was a large UMFF in a box sitting on his desk while I was being fitted), this question of "do I have the wrong size" would be answered. I will check out the sizing guide/measurements per the replies in this post for peace of mind, and maybe make a return trip to the DME to get a large.

Adoptivma and Julie, Per my first post on this thread I did get a chance to try out both the F&P 431 and 432. And sitting in a chair at the DME's office, I felt both were more comfortable than the UMFF. I preferred the 431 over the 432 by a slight margin. I'd say the only reasons I didn't go with the F&P masks were 1. At the time, I didn't know much about F&P products and 2. I like the way Resmed masks are built, and believed this mask would outlast the F&P masks. Don't know if this is giving F&P a fair shake; like I said before, I'm just not familiar with their line. I did write down the model and size of the F&P, and see that cpap.com sells the 431 for $110; this might be an out of pocket option I will have to pursue if I can't get the UMFF to work.

And finally DSM and Snufflepgs, I'm locked in at 11 cm/H2O with my straight cpap, so if I can get it working at that pressure, hopefully I'll be set. Here's hoping.

Thanks for your help, Ken

[Brian Hinther]

The UMFF was my first full face mask, too. I struggled with it for about 6 months, trying both medium and large sizes, before giving the F&P 431 a try.

The 431 is much easier for me, and I love having all 3 sizes available for when you wonder if you've really got it right. It also is easier for me to side sleep in; I lie right on the mask without the UMFF forehead thing getting in the way..

When I decided to try the UMFF again, I almost couldn't get it over my head because I'd had the straps so tight compared to the 431.

And, by the way, I have tried the 432. I had trouble trying to adjust it because of the extra stiffness the foam gives it. It seemed when I would tighten the bottom straps, the rigidity of the mask would raise the top part up off my face.

I guess I'm pretty well sold on the 431 for my face, but as they say, your mileage may vary.

[Knightfall]

Well night two of using the UMFF was a lot better than night one. I slept straight through the night, no interruptions from leaks or discomfort. And no angry red marks on bridge of nose or anywhere for that matter. Numbers weren't stellar: Leakage = 0.35 l/s, AHI = 6.1, AI = 0.6 and HI = 5.5. But I believe this is a mask I can work with. I am a little concerned about the leakage being where it's at (by Resmed's scale, it rates this as a "double star", or adjust mask category). So something to work on; if anyone has additional input specific to reducing mask leakage, it would be appreciated.

Snoredog and Wulfman gave good direction on ensuring I was fitted with the correct size in a medium. Both using the CPAP.com sizing guide and comparing face measurements vs mask measurements reinforced that a medium is indeed the correct size for me.

Thanks again for the help, Ken

[Wulfman]

Ken,

Make sure the mask selector in your CPAP is set to the full face setting.

Good luck.

Den