New heated hose - Humidifier stops working

[teffers]

I have the Philips Respironics Dreamstaion with Humidifer.

I was getting some rainout (occasionally) so I bought the heated hose and used it for the first time last night.

I set the hose to 1x heat and left my humidification settings at 1x (my normal setting).

I woke up at around 2am with a dry throat / nose and all the signs of no humidifaction, checked the water tank and the water was cold.

I then tried changing both settings and waited half an hour before checking, again water was cold.

I also didn't really perceive the air as noticably warmer even when I tested the hose at max heat.

I finally replaced the heated hose with the normal hose and humidification worked again for the rest of the night.

Faulty hose ? or some setting I'm mssing (Humificaation set to fixed etc). Just to add, ambient temp was low / coldish as well.

UPDATE:

Just did a quick test and increased the settings on both the hose and the humidifier and I can feel the hose get slightly warmer and can feel the bottom of the humidifier get hot.

So I think it may just have been I had the settings too low maybe?

[Chris8243]

Did you change the "Tube Type" under "My Settings" on the machine when you switched to the heated hose? I just looked at the manual, says it will change automatically unless it is locked by the provider.

When I switched, I didn't have to change it. The tube itself will be slightly warm to the touch. So if all is well now, as you indicated when you raised the settings, hopefully that's the answer and it will be fine now.

[Pugsy]

I suspect the settings of 1 for both hose air temp and humidity were simply so low that not much heat was generated by either.

Setting of 1 on the hose air will only warm the hose air just a little bit above the ambient room air temp..very little change which probably simply can't be felt much. I think the 1 setting offers maybe 3 or 4 degrees above ambient room temp.

The humidity setting is also going to start out with ambient humidity and go from there and if the bedroom ambient humidity was already fairly higher.....the machine may simply not have needed to add much warmth to the heating plate and thus to the water to increase the humidity to whatever level the setting of 1 is supposed to deliver. The setting of one is very low and going to add only minimal moisture to the air being delivered. The machine's humidifier doesn't add moisture on top of the ambient humidity...it adds moisture enough to get to whatever that setting of 1 delivers and then it doesn't add any more and no more heat will be applied and when it does maybe heat up it will be brief.
Example....suppose the ambient humidity is 60% and the setting of 1 gives a person 70% (and I don't know what the settings are supposed to deliver but just picking a number for a how does it work explanation) then the machine doesn't have to deliver much added moisture at all to end up with 70% when starting out at 60%. So it's going to do very little work bringing the air up to 70% when it starts out at 60%.
Now if the bedroom air humidity was 20%....it's going to do a lot more more work making it to 70% and more heat and more water will be used.

I use near maximum humidity available. Always have...it's what my nose likes and needs. Somewhere up around 90% I think is what it is.
There are nights where I use up nearly all the water in the chamber and there are nights where I don't use up much water at all.
And I never change the humidity setting....I just picked a setting my nose likes and I use it year round and let the machine sort it out.
It all depends on what the ambient humidity might be....nights where it is raining and I have the windows open...I may not see any water drop at all because the ambient humidity is probably already 80% and I simply don't need much added water to reach the 90%.

I do have a little gadget on my bed side table that tells me ambient temp and humidity in the bedroom. I look at it occasionally just to get an idea of what to expect in water consumption mainly. I always top off the water every night...just in case unless it's going to be raining all night and the windows are open. I don't like what happens to my nose when I run out of water....it's ugly.

[teffers]

Thanks Chris and Pugsy

I think you're right.

I'm gonna bump it up to at least x2 on the humidifier and x2 on the hose and see how that gets on.

[teffers]

Ok so I've pretty much given up with the heated hose now unfortunately:

Tried it with the Humidifier settings bumped up to 2 and the heating settings at 1 and then 2. This does indeed keep the humidifier running as we suspected. Unfortunately it means the water in the reservoir (filled to max) runs out in the early hours

I guess it must be a combination of my pressures (16 cmH20 to 20 cmH20) and the dryness of the bedroom maybe. Either way I wasn't expecting to add another complication to my setup by getting the heated hose... oh well.

Could have REALLY used it last night too as I woke up with nose freeze about 2am

[Pugsy]

Just how dry is the ambient humidity in your bedroom? Do you know? There are cheap little gadgets available to measure humidity in a bedroom.

The most common cause of running out of water
1....ambient humidity
2....humidity settings
3....leak...excessive leak will eat up the water...so make sure you aren't having a lot of large leaks.
4....pressures used..yes...higher pressures will use up more water.

Could have REALLY used it last night too as I woke up with nose freeze about 2am

This shouldn't have happened...hose temp isn't tied to humidity when using a heated hose. You can set the hose air temp high and use a low or even off humidity setting and be able to avoid frozen nose syndrome.
Increase the hose air temp setting...pretty simple and this won't happen...you have higher settings available above the 2 you said you used.
Either that or turn up the furnace in the house and warm up the bedroom air.

Hose air temp and humidity setting are not tied together when using the heated hose unless someone is using the "auto" setting.
Higher hose air temp will prevent frozen nose unless your ambient room temp is really cold.
Been there and done that with a Respironics heated hose...so I know what I am talking about and I also prefer a cold bedroom and I have experienced frozen nose. You don't have to have that annoyance if you will just increase the hose air temp.

The water chamber running dry...something is going on to cause it to use up more water.
You really need to rule out large leaks being a factor before giving up.
If it really is just extremely dry air in your house and leaks aren't a factor....consider adding moisture to the ambient air with a room humidifier. They do help.

[Jas_williams]

Could have REALLY used it last night too as I woke up with nose freeze about 2am

Run your hose under the bedclothes, that will take the edge off the chill

[teffers]

Could have REALLY used it last night too as I woke up with nose freeze about 2am

Run your hose under the bedclothes, that will take the edge off the chill

Thanks Jas, I do do that but I move constantly and it just works it's way out again.

[teffers]

Just how dry is the ambient humidity in your bedroom? Do you know? There are cheap little gadgets available to measure humidity in a bedroom.

The most common cause of running out of water
1....ambient humidity
2....humidity settings
3....leak...excessive leak will eat up the water...so make sure you aren't having a lot of large leaks.
4....pressures used..yes...higher pressures will use up more water.

Could have REALLY used it last night too as I woke up with nose freeze about 2am

This shouldn't have happened...hose temp isn't tied to humidity when using a heated hose. You can set the hose air temp high and use a low or even off humidity setting and be able to avoid frozen nose syndrome.
Increase the hose air temp setting...pretty simple and this won't happen...you have higher settings available above the 2 you said you used.
Either that or turn up the furnace in the house and warm up the bedroom air.

Hose air temp and humidity setting are not tied together when using the heated hose unless someone is using the "auto" setting.
Higher hose air temp will prevent frozen nose unless your ambient room temp is really cold.
Been there and done that with a Respironics heated hose...so I know what I am talking about and I also prefer a cold bedroom and I have experienced frozen nose. You don't have to have that annoyance if you will just increase the hose air temp.

The water chamber running dry...something is going on to cause it to use up more water.
You really need to rule out large leaks being a factor before giving up.
If it really is just extremely dry air in your house and leaks aren't a factor....consider adding moisture to the ambient air with a room humidifier. They do help.

Thanks as always for the reply Pugsy.

Firstly no auto settings, all manual.

Dealing with the leak issue. Sleepyhead has always reported significant leaks, and occasionally I can see 1 or 2 on the graphs, but the Dreamstation reports that the mask fit is between 98-100% each night. I've switched sleep clinic and machine type in October last year and I just can't tolerate / avoid noticeable leaks with any of the Respironics masks they've supplied so I'm using a 3 year old Resmed Ultra Mirage 2. My new clinic is proving about as useful as my last so I'll request another go on the mask-russian-roulette game again at next month's appointment.

The room temp isn't especially cold as far as I can tell, I often stick a leg outside the covers. I can't speak for the humidity level but I know that without the heated hose in use, and the humidity setting at 1x (my most comfortable setting), the tank lasts all night with a little bit to spare.

I tried with the heated hose at a higher setting but as it was using all the water up at heat level 2x I just assumed a higher setting would have the same effect.

I'll retry at a higher setting for the hose at some point but I'm struggling in general with getting a consistent therapy (have been for the last few years) so it all starts to become a massive tangle of variables that I'm hesitant to add to. My sleep consultant, who sees my AHI around 2 and thinks all is well with the world, is even suggesting seeing a psychiatrist because he suspects depression ... If it is then I have to share my cure = the occasional decent night's sleep... I could save the NHS millions

Thanks again Pugsy.

[Pugsy]

SleepyHead reporting significant leaks in the "time over red line" statistic and the machine not reporting significant leaks...that's because SH is using the ResMed red line threshold of 24 L/min and that threshold doesn't work for a Respironics machine.

Change it or just turn it off.
Preferences/CPAP tab...change the 24 to something more suitable as a threshold for a Respironics machine.
Since Respironics doesn't have a fixed red line threshold because it varies with mask and pressure...you have to guess a bit.
70 to 80 L/min is a nice conservative number to use...or just turn it off (remove check mark) and rely on the machine to report leaks that are large in the Events graph.

SleepyHead defaults to the ResMed threshold...and it simply isn't a good number for Respironics users to be basing leak statistics on.
Should never have been a default...people should have been able to input machine brand to avoid that confusion...and unneeded panic it has caused.

[teffers]

SleepyHead reporting significant leaks in the "time over red line" statistic and the machine not reporting significant leaks...that's because SH is using the ResMed red line threshold of 24 L/min and that threshold doesn't work for a Respironics machine.

Change it or just turn it off.
Preferences/CPAP tab...change the 24 to something more suitable as a threshold for a Respironics machine.
Since Respironics doesn't have a fixed red line threshold because it varies with mask and pressure...you have to guess a bit.
70 to 80 L/min is a nice conservative number to use...or just turn it off (remove check mark) and rely on the machine to report leaks that are large in the Events graph.

SleepyHead defaults to the ResMed threshold...and it simply isn't a good number for Respironics users to be basing leak statistics on.
Should never have been a default...people should have been able to input machine brand to avoid that confusion...and unneeded panic it has caused.

Thanks Pugsy, I've done that now. I've included my latest data below in case you can see anything I need to be concerned about. I genuinely think there's something more than flow related sleep disturbances going on for me (I realise all the machine can work with is flow-rate etc) so I'll continue to try and push for something more from my consultant.

https://imgur.com/a/3ulKsAA

[Pugsy]

On paper you look pretty good. That little bit of large leak isn't enough to worry about as long as it didn't wake you up.

I don't know if more minimum will help your sleep quality or not but might be worth trying.

[teffers]

On paper you look pretty good. That little bit of large leak isn't enough to worry about as long as it didn't wake you up.

I don't know if more minimum will help your sleep quality or not but might be worth trying.

I did try a higher pressure but I'm swallowing a lot of air, even whilst awake and at 16, so it stops me falling asleep. Everything is so hit an miss though it's a real nightmare. I can get a half decent nights sleep one night, then the next week it's brain-destructing bad.

Thanks as always.

[As80]

Same thing happens to me. When I connect a heated hose my humidifier stops working. Wake up the next morning dry with my water level same as when I went to bed. My Cpap setting is at 7 cmH2O. No matter what setting combination I put my hose at and humidifier it still never seems to work. Even took it to my local pulmonary facility and spoke with my respiratory therapist. They just looked at me like I had 3 heads. Checked the machine and said everything seems to work fine. I told my therapist to take it home and sleep with it and then come back and tell me everything is fine.
If anyone finds a fix please let me know....thanks

[ml414skidoo]

Exact same thing has happened to me. 2019 Dreamstation worked great when new with heated hose and humidifier simultaneous. Heated hose rested on a base board heater and melted so I switched to a regular hose for a few months. Then after too much condensation in the hose I purchased a new heated hose and now the humidifier heat plate will not function when the heated hose is activated. Preheat works fine but as soon as the heated hose enables the humidifier heating plate stops warming.

Called my provider and by chance my machine is part of the recall so may never find out why, but I have to use the non heated hose to avoid the humidifier not working and drying my posterior nasal passages out that can lead to nose bleeds.

Thanks you for posting as there is little about this failure mode on the internet. It seems impossible since the heater will work and has worked but won't now with this new heated hose from Philips, a RES HT15 for Dreamstation this issue has began.