djam's therapy thread

[Bilbosax]

I've only used my P10 one night, and then decided to hold off on it until I got a chinstrap and mouth tape in the mail, so have switched back to my full face mask for the time being. But I noticed the same thing that you did with the P10, the nasal pillow air felt "warmer" to me. Personally, I think that it is injecting the air directly into your nose, and you are less aware of air temperature inside of your head than you are on the surface of your face. I've really gotten used to that cool breeze Just my thoughts.

[djams]

I've only used my P10 one night, and then decided to hold off on it until I got a chinstrap and mouth tape in the mail, so have switched back to my full face mask for the time being. But I noticed the same thing that you did with the P10, the nasal pillow air felt "warmer" to me. Personally, I think that it is injecting the air directly into your nose, and you are less aware of air temperature inside of your head than you are on the surface of your face. I've really gotten used to that cool breeze Just my thoughts.

Thanks! Appreciate the confirmation. I'm with you - I like cooler air, but not too cold.

[Pugsy]

Never really compared air warmth initially between masks but then never really used anything but pillows. Wouldn’t surprise me though to have it feel a bit warmer just from physical aspect of the volume of air contained within a full face mask vs pillow. Much easier to keep the air in the pillow warmer and you have the warmth of you own exhale breaths helping out. If too annoying you can reduce the hose air temp if using a heated hose.

Didn’t know you had the Scunci to maybe help with lips. Crossing my fingers for you.
I didn’t know about the Scunci when I first started therapy. If I had I would probably have given it a shot.

Now you understand my own personal preference for less on my face and head. It’s why I have progressively moved to more minimalistic masks as they have been released.
It’s something that is very important to me.

[palerider]

Looking at my awake breathing, I'm seeing odd jaggies in the flow rate and mask pressure traces. This goes on the entire time. Any idea what this is?

Sure looks like FOT to me... but even though your RR seems really low (6?), i wouldn't think that FOT should be kicking in that quick, plus, it's getting a strong pressure component, and weak flow, which is like you're obstructed... but the flow indicates you're still exhaling.

I don't know what's going on.

[djams]

Never really compared air warmth initially between masks but then never really used anything but pillows. Wouldn’t surprise me though to have it feel a bit warmer just from physical aspect of the volume of air contained within a full face mask vs pillow. Much easier to keep the air in the pillow warmer and you have the warmth of you own exhale breaths helping out. If too annoying you can reduce the hose air temp if using a heated hose.

This is what I was thinking - related to mask volume. I did turn off the heated hose, everything was fine. Still a bit warmer, but no problem.

Didn’t know you had the Scunci to maybe help with lips. Crossing my fingers for you.
I didn’t know about the Scunci when I first started therapy. If I had I would probably have given it a shot.

Thanks for the best wishes. We didn't have a scunci, but there's a drug store right down the street. After wearing the pillows for a bit, I feel it's worth making some extra effort.

Now you understand my own personal preference for less on my face and head. It’s why I have progressively moved to more minimalistic masks as they have been released.
It’s something that is very important to me.

This is the thing! It's SO comfortable, a whole different experience. After wearing the pillow mask for only 1.5 hours last night, all of the straps on the FFM were VERY noticeable when I put it on. I wasn't expecting this, and it surprised me. It's worth some effort to try to get these to work.

[djams]

Looking at my awake breathing, I'm seeing odd jaggies in the flow rate and mask pressure traces. This goes on the entire time. Any idea what this is?

Sure looks like FOT to me... but even though your RR seems really low (6?), i wouldn't think that FOT should be kicking in that quick, plus, it's getting a strong pressure component, and weak flow, which is like you're obstructed... but the flow indicates you're still exhaling.

I didn't even count the breaths - you're right. My awake breathing rate with pressure is always low(10-15ish). I had a real hard time with this when I started therapy - meaning trying to breath comfortably. The method I finally ended up with is slow, shallow breaths. In this case REALLY slow. Shows you how I react to something new without even thinking about it. Kind of psyches me out.

I don't know what's going on.

That's not comforting at all! This isn't a topic where I enjoy stumping the experts!

We'll see what it looks like with asleep breathing. For now, I think this is a classic case of the squidgy meat bag on the end of the hose wreaking havoc.

[palerider]

I don't know what's going on.

That's not comforting at all! This isn't a topic where I enjoy stumping the experts!

We'll see what it looks like with asleep breathing. For now, I think this is a classic case of the squidgy meat bag on the end of the hose wreaking havoc.

Darn those squidgy meat bags, if we could just get rid of them, dialing in CPAP would be SO much easier!

It looks like FOT, maybe premature FOT, confused by the really slow breathing... but as long as it's not happening when you're asleep, I think we may have to put it on the "you're awake, it doesn't count" pile.

[djams]

Stopping by quickly to leave this screenshot of some asleep breathing with the pillows. Pretty normal looking. And my awake breathing looked nothing like what I posted above.

[palerider]

Stopping by quickly to leave this screenshot of some asleep breathing with the pillows. Pretty normal looking. And my awake breathing looked nothing like what I posted above.

All but one of those breaths look really nice, rounded tops, no sign of flow limitation.. 'cept that one in the middle

[djams]

Stopping by quickly to leave this screenshot of some asleep breathing with the pillows. Pretty normal looking. And my awake breathing looked nothing like what I posted above.

All but one of those breaths look really nice, rounded tops, no sign of flow limitation.. 'cept that one in the middle

Gotta admit, I searched out the best run.

[djams]

Got some time today, so an update on the nasal pillow experience so far.

First night (Sunday) didn't go well. It took me 2 hours to fall asleep, same thing - air through the lips waking me from light sleep over and over. Once I fell asleep, I was mostly out until I was awakened by "flappity flap flap flappity flap flap". It was incredibly loud. According to my sleeptracker, this woke me from REM sleep, which is credible because the noise was in a dream I was having. But the larger problem was really dry nose and sinuses. Wow! Over the 2 hours of in/out of sleep, I kept adjusting humidity and hose temp trying to get cooler air. Finally ended up at humidity off / hose temp off. So I learned that I don't like those settings. Also realized that my scunci ear holes weren't quite right - had pain from behind my ears. At this point I switched over to my FFM to finish out the night (with my normal temp/humidity settings).

Second night, I used my F30 all night as I didn't want to be tired Christmas day.

Last night, I corrected the ear holes and I used the pillow mask with my normal temp/humidity settings. Had no issues with air too warm, should've left well enough alone here. It still took me almost an hour and a half to fall into sound sleep. But I could tell that I was getting longer periods of light sleep between awakenings, so I stuck with it. After the break at 23:20 I conked right out and stayed asleep. Woke up at 5am (my workday time) feeling totally ready to go. Feels like I slept VERY well once I got to sleep.

I think the scunci is a big help right now as it really softens the impact of the air puffs escaping between the lips. Hoping to only use it until I train my brain to realize that this is nothing - stop waking me up over it.

The chart is below. The respiratory rate is unusual for me. The average is 7-10 lower than what I normally see, and practically a flat line. I view this as a positive. I'm fairly certain that all of the leaking is related to open mouth. I'm pretty bothered by large leaks with such low pressure. I included the snore chart - but I think this is noises created when my tongue relaxes and drops into the airway. My wife wasn't awakened by any of it. This is a ton of activity compared to what I usually see.

20181225.PNG (162.23 KiB) Viewed 5593 times

Here's the respiratory chart. Here you can see a benefit of my slow crappy awake breathing - really easy to tell when I'm awake.

20181225_resp.PNG (19.94 KiB) Viewed 5593 times

Overall, I consider last night very positive. I feel great even though only 5.5 hours of sound sleep. Moving forward with high hopes. Oh, and not even a touch of soreness in the nostrils so far.

[zonker]

Also realized that my scunci ear holes weren't quite right - had pain from behind my ears. At this point I switched over to my FFM to finish out the night (with my normal temp/humidity settings).


I think the scunci is a big help right now as it really softens the impact of the air puffs escaping between the lips. Hoping to only use it until I train my brain to realize that this is nothing - stop waking me up over it.

well, first off-

tapdancing.gif

glad the pillows and the scuncis are working out. i keep meaning to point out to people when i recommend this method that *I* don't bother with cutting out holes to stick my ears through. i'm sure that's cuz i'm lazy. also, putting scissors in my hands is not a good idea.

also, i'm pretty much a creature of habit. so once this method worked for me, i just kept at it. (see "lazy" above.) i don't want to bother to train myself to be without them. it's a part of how i sleep.

but i can see why you would want to do it. there was someone earlier this year who was aghast at what some members put on their heads in order to sleep. palerider agreed. he said he put on his pillows and went to sleep. lucky guy!

at any rate, sounds like just about everything you try seems to work out. good job!!

[palerider]

but i can see why you would want to do it. there was someone earlier this year who was aghast at what some members put on their heads in order to sleep. palerider agreed. he said he put on his pillows and went to sleep. lucky guy!

I said that? musta been a moment of more insanity than usual.

I usually wear a scunchi these days, sometimes I tape. I don't remember ever having issues with air slipping into my mouth, until I spent a few days with a NG tube in the the hospital... i don't know if it was just coincidence, or i'd never noticed it before, but now, sometimes, I get those 'bubbles' and sometimes wake up with a dry mouth... the scunchi seems to help... It doesn't make sense (since it doesn't have any affect on the back of the mouth structures) but it seems to help, so I'll roll with it.

Now, we did have a guy who constructed a really elaborate nest for himself with pillows and multiple sheets and wedges to make a V shaped bed space that he couldn't roll over in... I did roll my eyes on that, but, hey, if it works for him, more power to him.

[djams]

well, first off-

Well thanks for the happy dance! Pretty much how I felt once I started realizing how good I feel today.

glad the pillows and the scuncis are working out. i keep meaning to point out to people when i recommend this method that *I* don't bother with cutting out holes to stick my ears through. i'm sure that's cuz i'm lazy. also, putting scissors in my hands is not a good idea.

also, i'm pretty much a creature of habit. so once this method worked for me, i just kept at it. (see "lazy" above.) i don't want to bother to train myself to be without them. it's a part of how i sleep.

but i can see why you would want to do it. there was someone earlier this year who was aghast at what some members put on their heads in order to sleep. palerider agreed. he said he put on his pillows and went to sleep. lucky guy!

at any rate, sounds like just about everything you try seems to work out. good job!!

Don't you jinx me with premature declarations of success!

At this point I'm very relieved that I was able to fall soundly asleep. And the lower respiratory rate - what a bonus. And my heart rate was lower as well. Hopefully this isn't a one-off.

I've seen the beauty shot that you've posted a few times, noted that you didn't do the ear holes, and initially tried with no ear holes myself. I added them because it keeps the band from sliding down to my neck. It seemed more secure. Is it? Beats me.

I do appreciate the support and encouragement. Thank you.

[zonker]

but i can see why you would want to do it. there was someone earlier this year who was aghast at what some members put on their heads in order to sleep. palerider agreed. he said he put on his pillows and went to sleep. lucky guy!

I said that? musta been a moment of more insanity than usual.

oh? well, maybe it was some other little red devil!

no i could jolly well be mistaken. just read it and attributed it to you. i read SO much on here and a lot of it slips through my memory. then it'll hit a few days later what i read. by that time, i can't seem to find the conversation at all!

who, me? crazy? not at all....