Any benefit for switching from auto bipap to ASV

[Audio_mc]

I have the ResMed aircurve 10 Auto and about to get the ResMed aircurve ASV machine in a few days and I was wondering is there any benefit in using that machine over the V Auto when I don't suffer from cheyne-stokes or anything like that?, pretty much is it more effective at eliminating obstructive apneas and flow limitation then the V Auto?

I heard that there are risk for you using ASV machines but I don't have any heart problems that I'm aware of so is there any other risk?

According to Barry Krakow he said that he received the best REM sleep while using the aircurve ASV and I was wondering if possibly there are more benefits to the ASV even if you don't suffer from crazy Central apnea?

I already got some great advice from pugsy but just wanted to open up the discussion to the public.

[CPAPSteve]

It would be helpful to post what advice Pugsy have you so that others can add to the conversation.

[Audio_mc]

It would be helpful to post what advice Pugsy have you so that others can add to the conversation.

She really just said that it is possible to set the ASV machine so that it works similarl to how the VAuto machine would work. I just wanted to know what are the other benefits besides it being able to duplicate what the VAuto can do.

Thanks

[Pugsy]

One extra benefit over the VAuto is you might be able to use even less EPAP with the ASV because of the even faster response of the ASV to things than the VAuto repsonse time.

I tried an ASV on a lark because someone told me it felt so good...and then someone sold me one at a really good price that I just couldn't turn down.
Once I tried it...I really didn't want to change back to bilevel auto. Eventually I did change (after at least 3 years on ASV) to an other machine that I was itching to try and I ran across someone who really needed the ASV. I didn't really need it...I just really liked it.

Example...with the ASV I could use minimum EPAP of 5.5 and PS minimum of 4 and max of 15 (figured might as well let it treat any sleep onset centrals I might have) and I got great results. Many, many times with AHI of 0.0 and I felt great and slept great.
On the bilevel machine I would need minimum EPAP of around 8 ish and I rarely saw AHI of 0.0....still have good numbers but not like I had with the ASV.

And yes...at this point all I really have said to the OP was that we could dumb down the ASV and make it function pretty much like the bilevel auto. Response will still be a little faster but overall function can be close.

While ASV is thought to be mainly for central apnea treatment...it also treats obstructive apneas/hyponeas as well.
It's just a real pricey OSA treatment unless someone stumbles on a good deal...and for sure insurance won't buy one unless someone really has central issues because of the cost.

Only negative (aside from price) is that one little thing about potentially being a big problem for people with congestive heart failure and ejection rates below 45. That study that was done that alarmed so many people had some drawbacks to it that weren't really addressed well but everyone decided to be safe than sorry when it comes to congestive heart patients.
It's a maybe problem for those people and I wouldn't advise trying ASV without a doctor's supervision IF someone had an ejection rate of 45 or less. Just to be on the safe side. Most people who have congestive heart failure that bad will know it. It comes with a lot of other symptoms that most people can't ignore.
That study was released about a year after I first started playing with ASV...didn't slow me down any and I used it for at least 2 more years until I got the itch to try something else and someone else really needed ASV and no one would even let her at least try it to see if it fixed her problem or not. So I loaned it out initially and then she decided to buy it.

[Audio_mc]

One extra benefit over the VAuto is you might be able to use even less EPAP with the ASV because of the even faster response of the ASV to things than the VAuto repsonse time.

I tried an ASV on a lark because someone told me it felt so good...and then someone sold me one at a really good price that I just couldn't turn down.
Once I tried it...I really didn't want to change back to bilevel auto. Eventually I did change (after at least 3 years on ASV) to an other machine that I was itching to try and I ran across someone who really needed the ASV. I didn't really need it...I just really liked it.

Example...with the ASV I could use minimum EPAP of 5.5 and PS minimum of 4 and max of 15 (figured might as well let it treat any sleep onset centrals I might have) and I got great results. Many, many times with AHI of 0.0 and I felt great and slept great.
On the bilevel machine I would need minimum EPAP of around 8 ish and I rarely saw AHI of 0.0....still have good numbers but not like I had with the ASV.

And yes...at this point all I really have said to the OP was that we could dumb down the ASV and make it function pretty much like the bilevel auto. Response will still be a little faster but overall function can be close.

While ASV is thought to be mainly for central apnea treatment...it also treats obstructive apneas/hyponeas as well.
It's just a real pricey OSA treatment unless someone stumbles on a good deal...and for sure insurance won't buy one unless someone really has central issues because of the cost.

Only negative (aside from price) is that one little thing about potentially being a big problem for people with congestive heart failure and ejection rates below 45. That study that was done that alarmed so many people had some drawbacks to it that weren't really addressed well but everyone decided to be safe than sorry when it comes to congestive heart patients.
It's a maybe problem for those people and I wouldn't advise trying ASV without a doctor's supervision IF someone had an ejection rate of 45 or less. Just to be on the safe side. Most people who have congestive heart failure that bad will know it. It comes with a lot of other symptoms that most people can't ignore.
That study was released about a year after I first started playing with ASV...didn't slow me down any and I used it for at least 2 more years until I got the itch to try something else and someone else really needed ASV and no one would even let her at least try it to see if it fixed her problem or not. So I loaned it out initially and then she decided to buy it.

Thanks for the good info as always pugsy! So from what I read, the real benefit is the response time with the ASV? I'm pretty sure that I don't have any condition such as heart failure (at least I hope that I don't). I have pretty bad chronic insomnia as well so do you think that this machine is more effective at treating something like that versus the VAuto?

[Pugsy]

I have pretty bad chronic insomnia as well so do you think that this machine is more effective at treating something like that versus the VAuto?

In all honesty...no.
Not unless your insomnia was directly related to some breathing/airway issues.
Remember not all insomnia is caused by something the machine can fix...it only fixes airway breathing issues.
It will smooth out your breathing but whether smoothing out the breathing ends up meaning reducing the insomnia...that's an unknown.

I have sleep maintenance insomnia issues myself but mine is cause from pain...good old arthritis...and the best cpap therapy in the world with the best machine in the world doesn't do a damn thing for what causes pain.
It also won't help if the insomnia is caused by medication side effects either.

Sometimes people want the machine to fix all our problems and it just can't if the problem isn't related to the airway or breathing...no matter how much we might want it to..it can't fix a problem it was never designed to fix.

Worth trying though especially since you have one on the way that you got a killer hot deal on.

[Audio_mc]

Very refreshing information. I guess I was a little mislead after listening to how Barry Krakow's swears by the ASV machine for chronic insomnia. I will say though that I do believe that my insomnia is due to a breathing problem. Just a speculation though nothing was ever confirmed.

[Stom]

Very refreshing information. I guess I was a little mislead after listening to how Barry Krakow's swears by the ASV machine for chronic insomnia. I will say though that I do believe that my insomnia is due to a breathing problem. Just a speculation though nothing was ever confirmed.

Well, I guess you'll find out soon. The proof of the pudding being in the eating, or some other appropriate aphorism.

Still jealous of that great eBay find. Hope it works well for what ails you. It will be interesting to find out.

[Pugsy]

Dr Krakow loves ASV and he makes it work for a lot of people but those people probably have insomnia from breathing problems and that's why they are seeing him.

I hope it helps you...I really do but I won't promise you that it will because I am living proof it doesn't/can't fix all insomnia issues.
There are some things we simply can't fix by smoothing out our breathing and I don't believe in fostering unrealistic expectations.

Now nothing would make me happier than to be proven wrong.
It all depends on whether your insomnia is related to the airway issues or not...and they might be.
That's why I say it is worth trying.

A few months ago we had a member here who has crappy sleep from a lot of spontaneous arousals and we couldn't really spot much on his flow rate graphs to help us out. He did NOT have OSA and in fact his AHI from an in lab sleep study was 0.8. I loaned him my ASV...it never helped him with whatever was causing his spontaneous arousals. There were a few breathing related arousals reported on the sleep study but the majority of his arousals were spontaneous.
He tried the ASV for about 2 months and finally gave up...still having crappy sleep.
We wanted so much for ASV to help but it just didn't.

[Audio_mc]

Thanks. I will definitely keep you guys updated.

[Audio_mc]

Dr Krakow loves ASV and he makes it work for a lot of people but those people probably have insomnia from breathing problems and that's why they are seeing him.

I hope it helps you...I really do but I won't promise you that it will because I am living proof it doesn't/can't fix all insomnia issues.
There are some things we simply can't fix by smoothing out our breathing and I don't believe in fostering unrealistic expectations.

Now nothing would make me happier than to be proven wrong.
It all depends on whether your insomnia is related to the airway issues or not...and they might be.
That's why I say it is worth trying.

A few months ago we had a member here who has crappy sleep from a lot of spontaneous arousals and we couldn't really spot much on his flow rate graphs to help us out. He did NOT have OSA and in fact his AHI from an in lab sleep study was 0.8. I loaned him my ASV...it never helped him with whatever was causing his spontaneous arousals. There were a few breathing related arousals reported on the sleep study but the majority of his arousals were spontaneous.
He tried the ASV for about 2 months and finally gave up...still having crappy sleep.
We wanted so much for ASV to help but it just didn't.

LOL wow maybe I'm over estimating the machine . I guess we will see how it goes!