SoClean 2: Am I a sucker??

[Snoregone Conclusion]

Freely admit I know nothing about this stuff. After reading all the posts, I am curious. Does anyone really understand all this? Someone is right, someone isn't... doesn't appear to be a case of half right or half wrong.

Mr. Loki... are you around?

Neither palerider or Righteous are 100% correct in everything in this thread.

It's been very entertaining to watch.

About to see the latest Jurassic Park dinosaurs feeding frenzy.

[palerider]

Neither palerider or Righteous are 100% correct in everything in this thread.

Nor is "Snoregone Conclusion"

[jnk...]

Does anyone really understand all this?

To which "this" specifically are you referring?

In general, if you get Pugsy's posts in this thread, you get enough, I would say.

If you mean by "this" the perceived supposed dangers of humidifiers, one posting party leans toward swallowing SoClean's scare tactics and another posting party leans toward common-sense reasonableness for the average user, as I read the posts.

Otherwise, please feel free to ask something specific for clarity on any of what has been posted. I don't think anyone here is directly attempting to be obtuse or to obfuscate, other than me of course.

[palerider]

I don't think anyone here is directly attempting to be obtuse or to obfuscate, other than me of course.

And a damn fine job you're doing of it, if i do say so myself :tips hat:

[prodigyplace]

Freely admit I know nothing about this stuff. After reading all the posts, I am curious. Does anyone really understand all this? Someone is right, someone isn't... doesn't appear to be a case of half right or half wrong.

Mr. Loki... are you around?

I think you have been around here long enough to guess who is right. If you search this thread you can find Pugsy’s posts to reinforce the correct position.

[CapnLoki]

Freely admit I know nothing about this stuff. After reading all the posts, I am curious. Does anyone really understand all this? Someone is right, someone isn't... doesn't appear to be a case of half right or half wrong.

Mr. Loki... are you around?

Yup, I'm here, sort of. I don't bother reading most of the threads about cleaning - I'm firmly in the "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" camp, and hardly ever clean my gear. However, I appreciate that some people have the need, real or imagined, to take purity more seriously and far be it from me to stand in their way.

I made several comments when I noticed the "cpaps are compressors, and compressors are known to make ozone, so cpaps must use ozone safe components" comments. I get annoyed at "it make sense to me so it must be a fact" logic and had to call it out. As a medical device it makes far more sense that it would be required to produce less ozone than is in city air so there should be no need for special ozone safe components. It only took a few minutes of googling to confirm this.

One thing I've learned is to beware of people who claim that experience in one area somehow makes them an expert in another.

[ChicagoGranny]

Sorry the link maybe doesn’t work on your device... posted from a mobile device. Here’s the article directly...
Seems pretty relevant.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2556912

Oh, your link worked on my device. You just posted the wrong link, and now you sneakily posted the correct one. Your dishonesty is showing.

Also your second quote is not from my link.. maybe you got some of the links confused.

No, see above, you posted the wrong link. You were the confused one.

[Righteous]

Sorry the link maybe doesn’t work on your device... posted from a mobile device. Here’s the article directly...
Seems pretty relevant.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2556912

Oh, your link worked on my device. You just posted the wrong link, and now you sneakily posted the correct one. Your dishonesty is showing.

Also your second quote is not from my link.. maybe you got some of the links confused.

No, see above, you posted the wrong link. You were the confused one.

There’s really no dishonesty. Why would I do that? I’m just trying to add some info here... I don’t have an agenda.

The first time I posted the link, it was the Google Scholar link... for me it linked directly to the correct article. For you it seems to have linked to a search. Possibly because I had a cookie and you didn’t.. who knows. My intent was to link to the single paper.

So in case any one is interested, you can of course read the paper on your own, but here are some interesting bits...

The title is “Filters Reduce the Risk of Bacterial Transmission from Contaminated Heated Humidifiers Used with CPAP for Obstructive Sleep Apnea”

recent observations suggest that their use, particularly if not cleaned, increases the risk of respiratory infections

Heated humidifier water contaminated with bacteria was studied under conditions simulating week-long use of nCPAP for OSA.

Conclusion: Data suggest that patients with OSA being treated with nCPAP fitted with humidifiers may be aerosolizing bacteria, putting them at risk for developing respiratory infections

[Righteous]

Just to clarify for everyone... I am not trying to convince anyone to use Soclean. Far from it. I’m simply saying do the reseach on your own. Think critically about what you read and make a desicion.

I only have an issue when hearsay and conjecture are taken as fact. I just wanted to add some data to the discussion

If you have pink slime in your reservoir... please clean and sanitize it. It’s not just gunk from water, it’s a potentially dangerous bacteria called Serratia marcescens. No one else in this thread offered that fact. If you think your immune system is okay to handle that, then fine, by all means ignore it. But at least understand what it is first.

Some people in this thread are very good at trying to redirect and distract. Why, I don’t know. Frankly I don’t care about blower vs compress... static electricity, etc etc. It came up because some people have an issue with me saying “maybe”... like maybe CPAP machines are built to withstand ozone. I have no evidence one way or the other, nor do they, but somehow they are certain they are right and I’m wrong. I bring it up to dispel fact from fiction. If someone wants to take apart a CPAP, and inspect all the components.. that would be awesome. Until then I’m not going to tell people ozone will definitely damage their machine.

So don’t just take anyone’s words on here for truth, not even mine. I can only cite some evidence, maybe give some info that allows you to do your own research and thinking. If I think your wrong, I won’t insult you.

Sometimes the people who yell the loudest are the ones who everyone hears and listens to. Unfortunately that doesn’t make them right.

Ultimately I hope everyone is well and stays healthy and CPAP continues to work for you. I honestly wish everyone the best.

[Righteous]

I made several comments when I noticed the "cpaps are compressors, and compressors are known to make ozone, so cpaps must use ozone safe components" comments. I get annoyed at "it make sense to me so it must be a fact" logic and had to call it out. As a medical device it makes far more sense that it would be required to produce less ozone than is in city air so there should be no need for special ozone safe components. It only took a few minutes of googling to confirm this.

Loki, please reread the post.. I never said it "must" use ozone safe components... I sight it "might". Lots of electronics, even medical devices can make tiny amounts of ozone that have no health effects on a person, but over long periods of time can damage components. Just trying to dispel the certainty that Soclean "must" damage CPAP machines. That's not a forgone conclusion, and I just added a possible reasons why, that's all. If you or anyone else has evidence that Soclean "MUST" damage CPAP devices, then please share it. But i'm not going to accept hearsay as evidence.

[lamar2217]

Rules for cap-talk.com

1. Acknowledge that CPAP is the only solution for apnea.
2. Agree that SoClean is a fraud.
3. Do not express opinions that may differ from those of the icon forum members.

[jnk...]

Just to clarify for everyone...

Always an interesting thing to say when no clarity follows.

I am not trying to convince anyone to use Soclean. Far from it.

Then why do you keep parroting the sales pitch of SoClean? If you aren't in this thread to argue for it, why are you in this thread? I mean, you are as welcome as I am. But state a position then discuss it. So far all I see you doing is making a bunch of "maybe" statements misapplying studies. Hey, just my opinion.

I’m simply saying do the reseach on your own.

No you aren't. You are linking to "research" you have done then putting your spin on it, even though the "research" you link to is just a bunch of "maybes," "suggests," and "possiblys."

Think critically about what you read and make a desicion.

Make a decision about what? Following the manufacturers' instructions or not following the manufacturers' instructions? Is that what you want people to decide? Or are you wanting people to think about buying SoClean? Be honest.

I only have an issue when hearsay and conjecture are taken as fact. I just wanted to add some data to the discussion.

I am unaware of any data provided by you. All you have presented is hearsay and conjecture based on reasons that, hey, maybe, perhaps, there's actually a possibility of an iota of a chance that SoClean might actually help someone somehow somewhere. That is, by definition, the very hearsay and conjecture you claim to be here to fight against. You and SoClean are the only people I can see presenting hearsay and conjecture as being factual.

If you have pink slime in your reservoir... please clean and sanitize it.

No. Just follow the manufacturers' instructions. Don't do anything else based on the hearsay and conjecture of SoClean and its shills.

It’s not just gunk from water, it’s a potentially dangerous bacteria called Serratia marcescens.

That is a fancy name for "gunk from water." It grows in your bathroom, kitchen, and anywhere it can find water, because it is in the air. That's why we clean things in our homes, and do so without ozone.

No one else in this thread offered that fact.

I first learned the details about it from this forum years ago. It was explained that it isn't the end-of-the-world dangerous stuff so many fear-mongers make it out to be. Clean your bathroom. Clean your kitchen. Clean anyplace or anything that gets damp if you don't want it to turn pink. It isn't rocket science. It's why we clean.

If you think your immune system is okay to handle that, then fine, by all means ignore it. But at least understand what it is first.

No one in this thread has suggested that anyone ignore anything, other than you and SoClean, Mr. Straw Man. Please! Talk about coming here to mischaracterize a discussion!! Are you actually now claiming that someone who doesn't use SoClean can't effectively clean pink gunk from their homes? Wow. Just wow.

Some people in this thread are very good at trying to redirect and distract.

I nominate you as the king of that country. You have been the one redirecting and distracting, from where I sit. Just like the SoClean commercials.

Why, I don’t know. Frankly I don’t care about blower vs compress... static electricity, etc etc.

Yet you choose to comment as if you are an authority on them all.

It came up because some people have an issue with me saying “maybe”... like maybe CPAP machines are built to withstand ozone. I have no evidence one way or the other,

We point out that you are saying maybe. That is not taking an issue. It is just pointing out that it is based only on what you choose to believe, which just so happens to align perfectly with what SoClean claims. You have no evidence. SoClean has no evidence. You both have that in common. "Maybe" is used to point to conjecture and hearsay. So don't be offended when we point out what the word means.

nor do they, but somehow they are certain they are right and I’m wrong. I bring it up to dispel fact from fiction.

So when you post a "maybe" statement from your head, that is supposed to be accepted as fact around here. Really? I do agree that you post to "dispel fact" and that you are doing that "from fiction."

I can only cite some evidence,

Still waiting for that.

If I think your wrong, I won’t insult you.

Yet you do. You do it by claiming that all who see SoClean for what it is are only trying to mislead, misdirect, and distract from what you and SoClean believe and present without meaningful evidence.

Sometimes the people who yell the loudest are the ones who everyone hears and listens to. Unfortunately that doesn’t make them right.

That is my point exactly about SoClean. They and their shills yell their lies very loudly in forums. But they are still lies, even when they whisper or claim that they aren't really here to cast doubt on anyone who points out that SoClean claims are not based on logic or science.

Ultimately I hope everyone is well and stays healthy and CPAP continues to work for you. I honestly wish everyone the best.

Stay healthy by following manufacturers' instructions--not wild, baseless, misleading claims of people selling things that will only keep you from doing the real cleaning that matters.

[prodigyplace]

Rules for cap-talk.com

1. Acknowledge that CPAP is the only solution for apnea.
2. Agree that SoClean is a fraud.
3. Do not express opinions that may differ from those of the icon forum members.

Is that why some members have icons? I have seen clueless new members with them too.

I suspect Righteous if they were actually righteous & hones would have a So-Clean sales icon.

[jnk...]

Rules for cap-talk.com

1. Acknowledge that CPAP is the only solution for apnea.
2. Agree that SoClean is a fraud.
3. Do not express opinions that may differ from those of the icon forum members.

1. Not the only. But the best. If it doesn't work for you despite giving it the full try, by all means use other approaches, and do so with the blessing of everyone in this forum, as far as I know.

2. No need to agree. We have forums for the purpose of learning from one another about things we don't agree on completely. The existence of SoClean does not constitute a fraud. But making fraudulent claims about imaginary dangers may, or may not, be actionable. We'll see.

3. Please express opinions that differ from others. But then be willing to accept the views of others in rebuttal, since that is generally the reason for posting in forums in the first place. Disagreement is not attack. I am honored when someone takes one of my posts seriously enough to disagree with it. But you know me--I'm just an attention-seeker trying to stir the pot.

[Righteous]

Wow.. some toxic and ignorant people on this forum. So this is where bullies go when they are grown up.

You guys are not worth my time in the slightest. I’m done talking to any of you. Sorry to all the other people on this forum who might be here and are thoughtful and nice people.

Good job bullying out another user... I’m sure you’re proud of yourselves and will follow up this post with messages to that effect.