Which Bilevel Machine is best ?

53now · Post by **53now** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:49 am

I use a Tranquility Bilevel machine from Respironics. I haven't had any problems with it but....I know it will wear out some day, and I will need to replace it. Question >>>>> Do I have to go through my DME ? These jokers charge an unbelievable price for these machines. Honestly, I don't think the techs at my DME are very learned when it comes to Cpap.
I don't have software or readouts or any of that stuff....just a simple machine. (it's 5 years old) Technology has come a long way in just 5 short years so I feel I'm way behind in my knowledge with regards to "what's happening to me while I'm sleeping" (leaks...apneas....REM sleep etc)
So...what's the best way to go with regards to Bilevel machines ???
Thanks for listening
Rich

Titrator · Post by **Titrator** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:54 am

Hi 53,

I have been looking at bilevel machines myself. They are all good, but which one is good for you>

I want a machine that allows me to download information, such as apnea, hypopnea and so forth.

I have tried quite a few. The VPAP III is a great machine. It is completely controllable, with rise time and much more, but you have to use a Resmed mask to get an accurate download.

The Respironics BiPAP Pro 2 is also a really good macine. I have the older model. The tracking works, but you only get three choices as far as rise time. They call it comfort settings. The good thing about the Respironics Bipap Pro 2, is that it is easy to use, their aren't a huge amount of controls.

The machine that I think is the real star is the Puritan Bennett 425 Bilevel. It is quiet, small, and uses a pressure sensor tube to measure pressure right at the mask. You can use any mask with the 425 and you get accurate downloads.

Silverlining 3 is the sofrtware from Puritan Bennett. For me, it is the most comprehensive software on the market. You see an incredible amount of detailed information. The software doesn't come with any type of explaination of what it is telling you, but I understand the information given.

All of the software that is included with the downloadable bilevel machines is geared toward the sleep tech, respiratory therapist, or sleep doctor. There is a learning curve.

Regards,

Ted

53now · Post by **53now** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:51 am

Thanks Ted for that information....That's exactly what I wanted. Now, let me jump ahead...... Let's say my machine bites the dust next week. And for the sake of argument, I do not want to go through my local DME. What do I do next ??? Do I contact my Doctor to write a prescription ? Contact an online company about their policy with regards to insurance or what ?? Should I go ahead and contact my local DME to get prices etc ? As you can see, this is uncharted water for me. Thanks

Titrator · Post by **Titrator** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:04 pm

Hi 53,

No matter wear you shop, you will get a manufactures warranty. At cpap.com, we have the customer ship the unit to us, and we send it to the manufacturer. This is exactly what a local DME would do as well.

We keep prescriptions on file for future purchases, if needed.

A local DME will rent a unit while yours is in repair. The average cost is around $150 per month. No matter where you shop, a local DME will rent a unit.

I would look at what your out of pocket will be, and if your local DME will supply this exact machine. More times than not, the local DME will give you what they already have on their shelf and not what you want.

I personallyi would go for the lowest price.

Regards,

Ted

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:02 pm

Hi 53,

What I did when I recently purchased my first machine was to contact my insurance and find out if I could buy online and submit a claim myself. They said I could but suggested I use a local "in network provider" and minmize my copay. When I expained that by my calculations a 30% non-network copay of $900 is less then 10% in-network copay of $3000 and that it would save them a bundle she said that sounds good.

I'll vouch for Ted's posts - he was very helpful in my purchase. I would highly recommend cpap.com and their staff.

imacpappro · Post by **imacpappro** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:45 pm

Hello 53,

The new PB 425:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/1543

Is definately worth considering. Not only the size of the machine but the features and cost make it very attractive. The Bipap Plus:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/1097

Is the most comprable to the Tranquility Bilevel you have been using. Another good option is the Vpap III:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/803

A very quiet machine, that is a little large than what you use now. All of these would work fine for you, and would be alot better with respect to noise levels when comparing to the Tranquility Bilevel.

I hope this helps, deciding on a new machine is always hard and you have to decide what is most important to you. Things like cost$, size, quietness, avaliable software, and of course buying the latest and greatest. You can buy a new bilevel from anywhere as long as you have a prescription but as you mentioned cost vary dramatically between DME-brick and mortar companies and internet companies. Good luck and I hope you find what you want and need.

ICP

sthnreb1 · Post by **sthnreb1** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:16 pm

Titrator wrote:Hi 53,

No matter wear you shop, you will get a manufactures warranty. At cpap.com, we have the customer ship the unit to us, and we send it to the manufacturer. This is exactly what a local DME would do as well.

We keep prescriptions on file for future purchases, if needed.

A local DME will rent a unit while yours is in repair. The average cost is around $150 per month. No matter where you shop, a local DME will rent a unit.

I would look at what your out of pocket will be, and if your local DME will supply this exact machine. More times than not, the local DME will give you what they already have on their shelf and not what you want.

I personallyi would go for the lowest price.

Regards,

Ted

I purchased a bipap pro from cpap and a bipap auto elsewhere. Recently I had a problem with the auto. My Internet provider immediatley contacted Respironics and were told it was probably a air flow sensor causing it to stop. I had contacted them on Wednesday and they got the machine from Respironics and shipped to me and I had it on monday. They also sent me a prepaid label to return the defective machine only. The recertifified came with manuals, hose, machine, filters, all power cables/plugs and a new case plus a new 2 year warranty.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:35 pm

I don't think the Silverlining software gives any AHI data from the PB 425 bilevel machine, does it?

stevoreno · Post by **stevoreno** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:15 pm

Titrator wrote:Hi 53,

No matter wear you shop, you will get a manufactures warranty. At cpap.com, we have the customer ship the unit to us, and we send it to the manufacturer. This is exactly what a local DME would do as well.

We keep prescriptions on file for future purchases, if needed.

A local DME will rent a unit while yours is in repair. The average cost is around $150 per month. No matter where you shop, a local DME will rent a unit.

I would look at what your out of pocket will be, and if your local DME will supply this exact machine. More times than not, the local DME will give you what they already have on their shelf and not what you want.

I personallyi would go for the lowest price.

Regards,

Ted

If I purchased a new CPAP machine from CPAP.com and at some point in time during my machine's warranty period the machine suddenly quit working and I was required to ship it back to CPAP.com who would if I understand correctly from what I have read would agree to ship my machine back to the machine's manufacturer to be checked out would CPAP.com furnish me with another machine to use while my machine was being sent back to the machine's manufacturer to be checked out and if so would CPAP.com charge me a fee for the use of the loaner machine while my machine was being checked out or would that loaner from CPAP.com be provided to me free of charge while my machine was being checked out and for how long would I be able to use any loaner machine from CPAP.com during the time that my machine was away?

Stevoreno
Biloxi, Mississippi
12/11/07

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:29 pm

Stevoreno wrote:
Titrator wrote:Hi 53,

No matter wear you shop, you will get a manufactures warranty. At cpap.com, we have the customer ship the unit to us, and we send it to the manufacturer. This is exactly what a local DME would do as well.

We keep prescriptions on file for future purchases, if needed.

A local DME will rent a unit while yours is in repair. The average cost is around $150 per month. No matter where you shop, a local DME will rent a unit.

I would look at what your out of pocket will be, and if your local DME will supply this exact machine. More times than not, the local DME will give you what they already have on their shelf and not what you want.

I personallyi would go for the lowest price.

Regards,

Ted
If I purchased a new CPAP machine from CPAP.com and at some point in time during my machine's warranty period the machine suddenly quit working and I was required to ship it back to CPAP.com who would if I understand correctly from what I have read would agree to ship my machine back to the machine's manufacturer to be checked out would CPAP.com furnish me with another machine to use while my machine was being sent back to the machine's manufacturer to be checked out and if so would CPAP.com charge me a fee for the use of the loaner machine while my machine was being checked out or would that loaner from CPAP.com be provided to me free of charge while my machine was being checked out and for how long would I be able to use any loaner machine from CPAP.com during the time that my machine was away?

Stevoreno
Biloxi, Mississippi
12/11/07

CPAP.COM has rental machines in their pricelist, but the burden of having something to use in the meantime is YOURS.
It's why many of us have spares.....and spares for our spares.

Edit: Depending on the circumstances of the machine failure AND if that might be covered under your homeowners insurance AND the deductible is less than the machine rental, then that might be one avenue to look at.

Den (trying to figure out how this 3-year old thread resurfaced.....maybe spam?)

GreenIce · Post by **GreenIce** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:39 pm

rested gal wrote:I don't think the Silverlining software gives any AHI data from the PB 425 bilevel machine, does it?

I am also interested to know how good is a PB 425 bilevel machine and also the data reports.

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:43 pm

GreenIce wrote:
rested gal wrote:I don't think the Silverlining software gives any AHI data from the PB 425 bilevel machine, does it?
I am also interested to know how good is a PB 425 bilevel machine and also the data reports.

I have read the same thing, it only delivers compliance like details, like the first 420S models, I'm told the later 420s models give full details, but the one I owned didn't.

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:06 am

Export of sythesis report from 425 demo file on SilveLining ver. 3.0 disk

Code: Select all

Analysis period
Start date : 17/08/2004
End date : 25/08/2004

Compliance : 
Period : 9days
Compliance (h/d): 10h58min
% Time with interface disconnected : 0%
% Time without respiratory cycles : 0%

Respiratory Cycles
Average respir. rate : 16.4bpm


Last settings of the period
(0 setting change)
IPAP : 9.0 cmH2O
EPAP : 3.0 cmH2O
Ramp : 15 min (3.0cmH2O)
ISens : 5
ESens : 5
pressure rise time(rt) : 3

% of total cycles by respir. rate
Percent cycle 4bpm : 0
Percent cycle 5bpm : 2
Percent cycle 6bpm : 0
Percent cycle 7bpm : 0
Percent cycle 8bpm : 0
Percent cycle 9bpm : 0
Percent cycle 10bpm : 10
Percent cycle 11bpm : 0
Percent cycle 12bpm : 0
Percent cycle 13bpm : 0
Percent cycle 14bpm : 0
Percent cycle 15bpm : 48
Percent cycle 16bpm : 0
Percent cycle 17bpm : 0
Percent cycle 18bpm : 0
Percent cycle 19bpm : 0
Percent cycle 20bpm : 21
Percent cycle 21bpm : 0
Percent cycle 22bpm : 0
Percent cycle 23bpm : 0
Percent cycle 24bpm : 0
Percent cycle 25bpm : 17
Percent cycle 26bpm : 0
Percent cycle 27bpm : 0
Percent cycle 28bpm : 0
Percent cycle 29bpm : 0
Percent cycle 30bpm : 0

% Time at real pressure
IP- : 0
IP  : 100
IP+ : 0
EP- : 0
EP  : 99
EP+ : 0

Export of sythesis report from 425st demo file on SilveLining ver. 3.0 disk

Code: Select all

Analysis period
Start date : 29/05/2004
End date : 04/06/2004

Compliance : 
Period : 7days
Compliance (h/d): 6h07min
% Time with interface disconnected : 0%
% Time without respiratory cycles : 0%

Respiratory Cycles
Average respir. rate : 20.8bpm
% Average spontaneous Cycles : 100%

Last settings of the period
(0 setting change)
IPAP : 12.0 cmH2O
EPAP : 8.0 cmH2O
Ramp : 0 min (3.0cmH2O)
ISens : 5
ESens : 5
pressure rise time(rt) : 3
Backup f. : 10 bpm
I/E ratio :  1/2.0 (33%)

% of total cycles by respir. rate
Percent cycle 4bpm : 0
Percent cycle 5bpm : 0
Percent cycle 6bpm : 0
Percent cycle 7bpm : 0
Percent cycle 8bpm : 0
Percent cycle 9bpm : 0
Percent cycle 10bpm : 1
Percent cycle 11bpm : 0
Percent cycle 12bpm : 0
Percent cycle 13bpm : 0
Percent cycle 14bpm : 0
Percent cycle 15bpm : 0
Percent cycle 16bpm : 2
Percent cycle 17bpm : 4
Percent cycle 18bpm : 8
Percent cycle 19bpm : 14
Percent cycle 20bpm : 15
Percent cycle 21bpm : 16
Percent cycle 22bpm : 13
Percent cycle 23bpm : 10
Percent cycle 24bpm : 6
Percent cycle 25bpm : 4
Percent cycle 26bpm : 2
Percent cycle 27bpm : 2
Percent cycle 28bpm : 1
Percent cycle 29bpm : 0
Percent cycle 30bpm : 1

% Time at real pressure
IP- : 0
IP  : 99
IP+ : 0
EP- : 0
EP  : 100
EP+ : 0

SilverLining now has a newer version, it may different there. The demo files get installed with the software IIRC.

O.

GreenIce · Post by **GreenIce** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:42 am

It is not easy to understand, isn't it ?

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:36 am

What a terrible memory I have! Someone reminded me of an email I'd received from a person who *did* contact PB to ask if SL 3.10 provides more data from the 425 bilevel machine. It doesn't.

FW: PB SL3.10 Software‎
From: Longoria, Richard -----
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 8:07:36 PM
To: --------
Dear ----,

Unfortunately, the latest version of SilverLining software does not show this information for the GK425 Bi-Level device. We have no plans to include in the future as we are working on the next generation of CPAP devices and software.

Regards,

Rich Longoria
Technical Operations Manager
Covidien
Puritan Bennett

Which Bilevel Machine is best ?

Which Bilevel Machine is best ?

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