What about a person drives pressure level?

[DreamStalker]

Most others would simply respond with a thank you for providing useful references. Oh well.

Had you done so, I would have.

But what you've offered is hearsay. Not fact, and one of the papers you cited was refuted in the second, which said that more study is needed.

All research studies always say more research is needed ...



And hearsay is actually all that you ever offer.

[TedVPAP]

Most others would simply respond with a thank you for providing useful references. Oh well.

Had you done so, I would have.

But what you've offered is hearsay. Not fact, and one of the papers you cited was refuted in the second, which said that more study is needed.

I answered the OP's question; there are physical metrics which correlate with treatment pressure.
Then I provided original sourcing for these correlations.

Your contribution is to humiliate yourself once again.

[palerider]

Most others would simply respond with a thank you for providing useful references. Oh well.

Had you done so, I would have.

But what you've offered is hearsay. Not fact, and one of the papers you cited was refuted in the second, which said that more study is needed.

I answered the OP's question; there are physical metrics which correlate with treatment pressure.
Then I provided original sourcing for these correlations.

Your contribution is to humiliate yourself once again.

Perhaps if you'd be more clear in what you allege, there would be less dissension, because YOU said:

Apnea home test kits request the customer's neck size to help set the initial AutoPAP pressure.

and then you offer an ANALYSIS REPORT of the results of a presumably home test kit that's asking that.

Not the same, but I suppose good enough for people that are happy with generalizations.

[DreamStalker]

Most others would simply respond with a thank you for providing useful references. Oh well.

Had you done so, I would have.

But what you've offered is hearsay. Not fact, and one of the papers you cited was refuted in the second, which said that more study is needed.

I answered the OP's question; there are physical metrics which correlate with treatment pressure.
Then I provided original sourcing for these correlations.

Your contribution is to humiliate yourself once again.

Perhaps if you'd be more clear in what you allege, there would be less dissension, because YOU said:

Apnea home test kits request the customer's neck size to help set the initial AutoPAP pressure.

and then you offer an ANALYSIS REPORT of the results of a presumably home test kit that's asking that.

Not the same, but I suppose good enough for people that are happy with generalizations.

He can't be satisfied with facts Ted ... he's a troll.

[DreamStalker]

===========
neck size 17+ is one of the signs of possible apnea that doctors use to decide on tests
it has nothing to do with the pressure needed

~~~~~~~~~~~~

neck size was alleged to be part of an IHT so they could set the pressure

that is a total crock

whether you can measure all the attributes of a person and guess a pressure is questionable
far easier better faster to titrate it at home and get the right pressure then let the auto function handle variations

I think you're still misinterpreting a "guessed therapeutic pressure" for what was actually stated ... an "estimated initial pressure" to start with for a home APAP titration. Some may feel that statistical estimates/guesses, like weather forecasting, are a crock ... but that is just an opinion because those who dislike the use of statistics do not have any better justifiable methods. Statistics is not "perfect" but neither is life ... but still better than throwing a dart at a wall with a bunch of numbers.

============

measurment beats guesses

just titrate it until you find the sweetspot to start
and let the auto handle the changes we all have by sleep position, sleep stage, congestions, etc

Of course measurement beats guesses ... but you still have to start measuring/titrating somewhere. Do you start minimum pressure at 4 or 14?

The study(s) proposed measuring certain human parameters frequently correlated with OSA ... like neck size, BMI, etc. ... and then titrating the subjects to find other statistical correlations between those same measurements and minimum starting pressure to begin a home titration and thereby shortening the time needed to find the "sweet spot". That's all.

As for APAP handling nightly variabilities accosiated with sleep position, sleep stage, congestions, etc, .... nobody is arguing that. That was never the issue in these studies.

=========

the OP said it was to set the cpap instead of titrating it separately

let it run full auto
look at the data
good sweet spot identified
tweak if needed
faster better easier cheaper than a sleep lab or statistical mumbojumbo

Running full auto is one way ...
faster ... not at all
better ... not really
easier ... not exactly
cheaper ... no difference

What is the probability that you even read the OP? ...

I assume it is a number of factors, but I am curious if there is any research on what physical characteristics of a person drive required pressure for proper CPAP therapy... ie. I am guessing that two different people having severe apneas may need very different pressure stetings to get to <1 AHI... is it related to airway size... throat structure.... muscle tone... nasal/sinuses... sleep positions... jaw... weight...?

I am guessing some of all that and more... but just curious if there is any known research or papers written on the subject.

Thanks!

What is the the statistical mumbojumbo chance that you even paid attention to the post being discussed in response to the OP?

Apnea home test kits request the customer's neck size to help set the initial AutoPAP pressure.

Answer : NOT at all.

[chunkyfrog]

IF ONLY neck size were useful in determining therapy pressure!
The doc could use a tape measure (reusable) instead of a titration study, ($$$$)
imagine all the sleep centers that could be turned into haunted houses!
So easily, in fact!

[DreamStalker]

IF ONLY neck size were useful in determining therapy pressure!
The doc could use a tape measure (reusable) instead of a titration study, ($$$$)
imagine all the sleep centers that could be turned into haunted houses!
So easily, in fact!

Why is it so hard for some people to understand the difference between "THERAPY PRESSURE" .... and "ESTIMATED INITIAL PRESSURE"?

[Julie]

I think 'estimated initial pressure' is just code (for ignorant docs) to set your pressure to 4 and 20, not knowing any better.

[chunkyfrog]

+1000, Julie.
As I understand, the neck size is an easily observed factor in establishing
LIKELIHOOD of having OSA--PERIOD!
It is COMPLETELY USELESS in predicting pressure.
This is why there are titration studies.

[TedVPAP]

+1000, Julie.
As I understand, the neck size is an easily observed factor in establishing
LIKELIHOOD of having OSA--PERIOD!
It is COMPLETELY USELESS in predicting pressure.
This is why there are titration studies.

Obviously you didn't read the links I provided. One study showed pressure predictions based on BMI, neck size, and AHI were accurate within +/- 1 cm-h20 for 20 out of 26 patients. That is not COMPLETELY USELESS.
No one is suggestion eliminating titration, nor is that the subject of this thread. Read the original post for the subject.

[DreamStalker]

+1000, Julie.
As I understand, the neck size is an easily observed factor in establishing
LIKELIHOOD of having OSA--PERIOD!
It is COMPLETELY USELESS in predicting pressure.
This is why there are titration studies.

The main reason for sleep lab titration studies is to bill the insurance companies $1,500 to $2,000 per night. Even you should know that.

But that's besides the point that 4 people on this thread who have the same common problem of not being able to understand that CPAP "therapy pressure" DOES NOT EQUAL "initial (aka - starting) pressure" for a home titration.

But ok, 1,000 Julie claps wins the game ... can't ever beat that.

[palerider]

One study showed pressure predictions based on BMI, neck size, and AHI were accurate within +/- 1 cm-h20 for 20 out of 26 patients. That is not COMPLETELY USELESS.

However, it is such an incredibly small sample as to be statistically insignificant.

[TedVPAP]

One study showed pressure predictions based on BMI, neck size, and AHI were accurate within +/- 1 cm-h20 for 20 out of 26 patients. That is not COMPLETELY USELESS.

However, it is such an incredibly small sample as to be statistically insignificant.

You clearly have no understanding of statistics - yet you make silly statements.
I can only read the paper's abstract so I can't quote their statistical analysis.
However I can perform my own calculation given the data in the abstract.
A sample size of 26, with binomial outcomes of 20 and 6 means that the two methods are equivalent (defined as within +/- 1cm-H2O) with a confidence of 99.5%

[DreamStalker]

One study showed pressure predictions based on BMI, neck size, and AHI were accurate within +/- 1 cm-h20 for 20 out of 26 patients. That is not COMPLETELY USELESS.

However, it is such an incredibly small sample as to be statistically insignificant.

You're the one that's such an incredibly small and insignificant troll!

[DreamStalker]

Oh look! A list of the most rapidly declining professions just came out ...

source: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-2 ... ng-jobs-us

Hmmmm ... second place.