Poll Beware of pills, doctors caution

roster · Post by **roster** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:21 am

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/n ... 7b&k=58941

For me, this is a very timely article posted on today's Streaming CPAP and Sleep Apnea News. I awoke at 3:00 a.m. and took a child's dose of Benadryl (generic) to get a few more hours sleep. I did sleep until 6:00 a.m. but then lay around on the sofa in the rec room feeling bad until 11:00 a.m. I believe it was the side effects of Benadryl.

caty · Post by **caty** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:25 pm

Prior to being diagnosed with sleep apnea, my doctor prescribed Lunesta. I used it for 2 months before taking my sleep tests. Decided to quit Lunesta after starting on CPAP. Suffered from insomnia for a few days after that. If I don't fall asleep within an hour of going to bed, I'll take an OTC like Sominex or Nytol, and only half the recommended amount. Cutting the dosage in half usually does the trick and I don't have the tiredness the next morning. But I prefer not to take any type of sleep medication.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:36 pm

Fortunately, I don't need sleep meds.

dllfo · Post by **dllfo** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:01 pm

I try to never touch the stuff, it is addicting I hear. I stick to my morphine.

krousseau · Post by **krousseau** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:38 pm

The caution is well founded AND IS TRUE OF ANY MEDICATION not just sleeping or antianxiety medications. This does not mean sleep meds should not be used.

One person mentioned in the article was somone handing out sleeping meds from her own stash to friends unaware of side effects and individual medical conditions.

Another was a person treating SDB as insomnia using sleep aids not CPAP.

Most over the counter sleep aids contain an antihistamine. Some also contain acetaminophen. Antihistamines also have a fairly broad range of actions/side effects. Diphenhydramine or benadryl has a half life in the body from 8-12 hours. So some people will feel below par late into the morning.

Benzodiazepines have varying half lives-the shortest is ativan at 4 hours, and I think Valium is the longest at 50-70 hours. Benzodiazepines are also addicting.

The half life of Ambien is about 2 hours & lunesta 6 hours. Rozerem itself is listed as 1.5-2.6 hours but as it is broken down by the liver another chemical is formed that can last up to 5 hours.

These times depend on normal kidney and liver function-if they are impaired the time can go way up.

Some sleeping medications have a broad range of action others are more specific--like using a shotgun or a rifle--and having more or fewer sider effects.

Then you have to consider age, other medications being taken, use of alcohol or recreational drugs.

Once you put all this data together you and doc have made a cautious approach to choosing a sleep medication. Then you take it. Then maybe it works or doesn't work for you as an individual, or unknowable individual genetics can kick in and cause problems.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm against using sleep aids-I use one with a short half life, has a greater specificity, and is considered nonaddicting. Don't use it with alcohol. And I let my family know when I'm taking it.

Snoozing Gonzo · Post by **Snoozing Gonzo** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:06 pm

Krousseau, your discussion of the half-life of various drugs is very interesting. I have suggested to some folks that Sleepytime Tea is nice after a stressful day and evening and that Sleepytime Extra (with valarian root -- available at natural food stores) puts me down for quite a while. (I have tried straight valarian root tea - boy, that's some nasty tasting stuff!) I wonder if the half-life of the small dosage of valarian in Sleepytime Extra would be similar to the higher powered synthetic version, valium. For now, I will assume it is similar and add that caution whenever I suggest it.

rock and roll · Post by **rock and roll** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:33 pm

I have always needed some kind of aid to sleep, even at the sleep clinic. I have been unable to fall asleep since I was three years old...a LONG time ago! Unless of courfse I don't want to like watching an important ball game or watching a movie before bedtime.

krousseau · Post by **krousseau** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:50 pm

Herbal/plant derived concoctions generally contain multiple substances, some of which are active some not. If one tries to test something like valerian to get FDA approval it becomes very difficult to separate and test each specific component as there can be hundreds. Even when they separate out one specific component as they have with St John's Wort-they do not really know if they have the right ingredient. The components may also rely on each other for effectiveness (the whole having more usefulness than the sum of all the single components). As for side effects the components occur in small amounts so may produce fewer side effects that any one ingredient that gets singled out and concentrated because they think it is "the active ingredient". In Traditional Chinese Medicine some herbal medications are believed to have what we consider opposing actions-and your body "chooses" which action it needs. If that seems strange even western medicine uses Ritalin to reduce hyperactivity in kids and as a stimulant for the elderly.

Herbals can interact with other medications being taken-here is one site to check-there are others to be found on the web-though I couldn't find the site I thought provided the best info. Look at complementary medicine sites too.

http://www.holisticonline.com/Herbal-Me ... d_reac.htm

Valerian, chamomile, etc don't work for me. I have not had much luck with most herbals except for a tincture of echinacea/goldenroot/plus other herbs to minimize cold symptoms-it has seemed to ward off a cold at times-but then I have so many allergies sometimes I'm not sure if it was the beginning of a cold or the allergies kicking up for a couple days.
Teas are probably the safest to try-get fresh intact herbs (not powdered), check which part(s) of the herb to use, and check for possible interactions.

rock and roll · Post by **rock and roll** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:59 pm

I agree with the above plus I've tried melotonin, meditation, yoga, deep breathing, working myself to death, sun lamps, etc.

I do find that I am worse at full moon. I will not sleep under any circumstances then, just before or after. Must be part werewolf. I also find I am a night owl, I can sleep during the day but not at night.

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:13 pm

Been using up to 3mg of Melatonin nearly every night for 15 years now. I can go a night or two without it, since I'm at my daughters in Los Angeles, I forgot my Melatonin at home, been more than 5 nights without anything.

Here is what I know using it that long:

1. About the cheapest sleep supplement you can find.
2. It is non-addictive (it is one of the few remaining hormones still OTC or not requring a prescription, if the FDA could control and tax it they would).
3. Find it about as effective as Excedrin/TylenolPM but doesn't leave the residual side effects of those in the morning.
4. Only adverse side effects I have seen is when I take the melatonin too late, then it can either not work or leave me groggy when I awaken.
5. I have tried Ambien, melatonin works better for me and I feel better the next day (vs. Ambien).

I have difficulty shutting off my daily activity when I go to bed, melatonin helps me relax enough to get to sleep.

roster · Post by **roster** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:07 pm

Snoredog wrote:Been using up to 3mg of Melatonin nearly every night for 15 years now. I can go a night or two without it, since I'm at my daughters in Los Angeles, I forgot my Melatonin at home, been more than 5 nights without anything.
...............................

Your comments are enticing me to try melatonin again.

I tried it about 5 years ago to combat jet lag on international trips. It did not work but then I was a sleep apneic who was yet to be diagnosed and treated with cpap.

My problem now is premature awakening. I will sleep well for 4 to 5 hours and then comes the problem until the alarm sounds.

Are you sleeping well without it in LA?

rooster

wabmorgan · Post by **wabmorgan** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:40 pm

I tried Ambein a few times before I was dianosed with OSA. But... It did nothing to help me sleep!!!!!!!!

jeepdoctor · Post by **jeepdoctor** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:53 pm

If I need something to help me get to sleep, I take 4 Ibuprofen tablets.

A friend told me about a co worker who snored like a champion. My friend surmised that the gent had disordered sleeping, but had never been tested. They were supposed to go on a business trip to Europe together. He received a call the day of departure informing him that the co worker had died in his sleep the previous night. Seemed the gent had trouble falling asleep, so the doc prescribed sleeping pills. My friend surmises that the gent had an apnea and the sleeping pill chemicals prevented him from arousing. All supposition, granted. But interesting.

krousseau · Post by **krousseau** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:59 pm

Rooster-Try Dr Weil's website for recommendations on using melatonin. It has some unique qualities-and is one of the medications that is not necessarily better in larger doses. It is supposed to be good for adapting to time changes when traveling/jet lag.

Jeepdoc-I would also not take a sleeping medication my sleep doc had not OK'd.

roster · Post by **roster** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:27 pm

jeepdoctor wrote:If I need something to help me get to sleep, I take 4 Ibuprofen tablets.

A friend told me about a co worker who snored like a champion. My friend surmised that the gent had disordered sleeping, but had never been tested. They were supposed to go on a business trip to Europe together. He received a call the day of departure informing him that the co worker had died in his sleep the previous night. Seemed the gent had trouble falling asleep, so the doc prescribed sleeping pills. My friend surmises that the gent had an apnea and the sleeping pill chemicals prevented him from arousing. All supposition, granted. But interesting.

jeepdoctor:

1) I really like ibuprofen for headaches and muscle soreness but have never tried taking 4 tablets to help sleep. Ibuprofen is commonly used to treat headache, muscle soreness from strains or other injuries, arthritis, menstrual pain and cramping, and mild fever. Do you have one of these conditions which ibuprofen relieves and then helps you sleep? Or do you think there is some other benefit from ibuprofen that generally helps with sleep? I want to try it tonight for my premature awakening problem.

2)The docs prescribed sleeping pills, muscle relaxants and antidepressants for my sleep problems. Lucky I finally figured out what was wrong and had a sleep clinic confirm severe obstructive sleep apnea. Before I was properly diagnosed, it was very clear that I felt worse the morning after I took any of those medicines. I have no doubt that they were putting me in a deeper sleep and extending the lenght of my apnea episodes. I only took Ambien one night and felt like it would kill me if I took it another night.

rooster

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): Awakening

Poll Beware of pills, doctors caution

Do you take sleep medications (prescription or otc)?

Poll Beware of pills, doctors caution