caffeine paradox -- anyone else?

[lvehko]

After going back and forth with caffeine, quitting and taking it up again over and over, I'm starting to wonder if caffeine actually makes me sleepy. I know that coffee does, and I gave up coffee some years ago because of it, but I have recently been hitting the tea and sodas, now that my acid reflux is no longer a problem (thanks to CPAP), and I've been more tired since I started them back up again. I googled caffeine and sleepiness and found a few anecdotal reports of caffeine making people sleepy, but nothing very scientific. Does this happen to anyone else? Anyone have a guess as to why it would make a person sleepy? I'm think that it might be related to the vaso-constrictor effect (i.e., it causes your blood vessels to narrow, increasing blood pressure slightly, which is why it gives you more energy). Maybe in some people, it causes problems with blood flow, which would increase sleepiness? I'm grasping at straws here. If anybody has every seen any research on this topic, I'd love to hear about it...

Minerva

[ailsaek]

Hot chocolate makes me sleepy, and chocolate has caffeine in it, IIRC.

[Bookbear]

Minerva, al I can say is that is doesn't interfere with my sleep; that is, it doesn't have the effect of keeping me awake. I can drink a mug of strong coffee half an hour before bed and still sleep soundly (the opposite of what most people experience). I have never noticed that it made me more sleepy, however. I usually drink one large mug of strong coffee a day, in the morning, with an evening cup or two if we have gone out for dinner (rare).

[Sleepless in St. Louis]

Interesting observation. I don't know why it works but maybe it's the same reason that they give a stimulant to children to calm them down--Ridilin (sp)?

Nicotine is also a stong stimulant. I've been quit for close to 10 years and alls I know that if I smoked before I went to bed, out like a light. When I quit, even after the nicotine was well out of my system, I had bad insomnia.

It does seem like a paradox, but I've observed a similar thing.

tim

[Moogy]

I also have strange reactions to caffeine. If I don't have any after about 3 pm, then I can't go to sleep. If I keep drinking it until bedtime, I am fine. On nights when I can't sleep, I get up and drink a Diet Coke so I can get to sleep.

All this I discovered BEFORE apnea got to be such a problem for me. When I had serious untreated apnea, I could fall sleep in any conditions, including while driving.

Moogy

[Julie]

Hi, I wonder if it's not the caffeine helping you sleep, but the milk & sugar in the mix. Either one can have that effect (the sugar a bit later, after its initial boost).

[lvehko]

Hi, I wonder if it's not the caffeine helping you sleep, but the milk & sugar in the mix. Either one can have that effect (the sugar a bit later, after its initial boost).

I drink my tea black, so that's not an issue...

M.

[wahooker]

Caffeine might perk me up a little bit in the morning (Ok, It's required for me to function.), but doesn't affect my ability to go to sleep at night.

One time in College, on a bet, I drank a whole 2 liter of Jolt Cola in about 20 minutes, and fell asleep less than 30 minutes later without problem.

[Vader]

After going back and forth with caffeine, quitting and taking it up again over and over, I'm starting to wonder if caffeine actually makes me sleepy.

I can't offer any facts on this, but I have wondered why I can't seem to function without caffeine in the morning, yet if I have a cup too late in the afternoon, it gets me jittery. OTOH, I can remember many times when I drank coffee real late (just before bed) and it actually helped me sleep.
Could it be that when you're very tired at night, the coffee causes the opposite effect? I don't know.
At any rate, presently I don't drink anything 3-4 hours before bedtime, because once I'm in bed, I don't want to get up....if I can help it, anyway.

[Offerocker]

This certainly an interesting topic!
I had to reread Minerva's post to make sure I wasn't misinterpreting.

I too am a HUGE coffee drinker. Have to have that cup in my hand in the morning, even before I hit the bathroom (can't find it otherwise, ha ha).

Years ago, my doc had me switch to decaf. I was somewhat calmer, and can't verify its effect on my sleep because she also Rx'd something for my sleep (better quality). All this prior cpap, but I'm positive that I had apnea then.

I do remember being scheduled for an outpatient operation that was delayed by 3 hours. I had terrific headaches ( npo). Was told I was going through caffein withdrawal. So now I don't take any chances, ha ha. It is considered 'food' in this household (no children).

I'm very interested in learning more about this phenomenon! The sugar I use is also classified as a stimulant. Well, I guess this verifies that I do have ADD??? Well, it's a cheap fix, eh?

No tea, please.

[birdshell]

Caffeine is an interesting issue. One teacher of at-risk students used to give her unmedicated ADD/ADHD students some Mountain Dew. She felt that it helped them to calm down. Truthfully, it never seemed to make a difference in my observation of them. (I had all of her students as I taught 2 specials classes.)

BTW, several of us hoseheads take Provigil. That has recently been approved for treatment of ADHD children. It peps us up, but calms them down. Ritalin is NOT the only drug used for ADD/ADHD, but many of them are stimulants.

It was always interesting to see parents of students who were hyperactive. Quite often they had a Coke or Pepsi in hand all the time, and were smokers. Since the apples do often fall close to the tree, I found this interesting.

Sugar has no effect on students, either. Although there was a theory that this was a problem, a good study was done comparing the same 2 groups of students with and without sugar. It found no difference, but the self-fulfilling prophecy effect DOES make a difference.

When an exchange student in college, my host family kept serving a bedtime (caffeinated) coffee. When the daughter asked if she could have hot chocolate instead, I asked if I could as well. The family informed me that they had been serving coffee for me because Americans like coffee. They usually had hot chocolate, so after that we all continued THEIR custom.

I've rarely found the caffeine to keep me awake IF I AM USED TO HAVING IT! If my habits have been to avoid caffeine lately, then drinking some will keep me up--or at least cause me to sleep fitfully, CPAP or not.

The caffeine in chocolate is NEVER a problem!

[Goofproof]

Hi, I wonder if it's not the caffeine helping you sleep, but the milk & sugar in the mix. Either one can have that effect (the sugar a bit later, after its initial boost).

I drink my tea black, so that's not an issue...

M.

Have you tried Green Tea, I've switched to it and found it soothing, as with everrything I do to excess, I use two tea bags for strong, and use honey in it. Jim

Caffeine might perk me up a little bit in the morning (Ok, It's required for me to function.), but doesn't affect my ability to go to sleep at night.

[lvehko]

Have you tried Green Tea, I've switched to it and found it soothing, as with everrything I do to excess, I use two tea bags for strong, and use honey in it. Jim

Don't want to burst anybody's bubble, but green tea also has caffeine -- depending on the variety it can have up to the same amount as black tea. The reason is, it's the same plant, it's just not roasted before being packaged.

Min

[Niteair]

I have found that I can drink coffee anytime prior to going to bed , without any problem falling asleep, but will wake up several hours later and then can hardly ever get back to sleep until maybe a few minutes before its time to get up. Green tea IS available Decaffeinated.

[lvehko]

Green tea IS available Decaffeinated.

Very true! Also so is black tea, and coffee, of course. However, I have read that decaf varieties of tea and coffee still aren't 100% caffeine free -- decaffienation removes 95-97% of the caffiene, but there is still some left. Not a big deal unless a person is really sensitive to caffeine. I really have no idea how sensitive I am to it, but I didn't have any tea this morning, and I have to say I felt a bit more awake than usual. By noon I had a roaring headache and so I had a coke with lunch, and after lunch I needed a nap. Could just be placebo effect. Tomorrow I'm going 100% caffeine-free (provided I don't get a headache) and see what happens.

Min