OT: Time out and/or Duke it out thread

[jnk...]

Point being that the most respected posters at any given moment at cpaptalk, especially ones who have managed to stay mostly above the fray, may not realize that their reputation puts them in a unique position to wield their influence gently and carefully without having to be heavy-handed.

We live in an interesting age in which civilized discourse is becoming a lost art even in national and international arenas. Most threads at cpaptalk have not sunk to the level of your average news show or political campaign. But maybe most of us here are adult enough still to respond cooperatively if Pugsy or robysue hint that we may be damaging an important thread, much as how we repected Rested Gal and -SWS in a similar way in earlier days. Not so much moderation as collective respect and support for those who have earned it.

Just a thought.

[Julie]

That sounds so adult and 'nice', but is a new(er) model of the forum being set up, one for people with a certain elitist way of seeing things, relegating the rest of us to some other level of discourse that needs to be taken (in cases of disagreement) to 'elsewhere' - OT - if we disagree with, don't live up to or just aren't articulate in your ways of expression, a kind of second tier for the proles? Perfect, amazing, and less and less inclusive as this thing goes on. Why don't you just go somewhere else, take your attitudes and platitudes and let us hash things out as we always have done in the past without being made to feel 'other' or being told how to post?

[jnk...]

My response to that would be to suggest that anyone who sees an appeal for courtesy and respect as an elitist position will have to work that out in his own mind and heart, between himself and the mirror.

[Julie]

This is a Cpap forum, not a finishing school for those who follow your rules (yours, not Johhny's), and while of course it's important to keep things civil when possible, it's also important to not exclude those who for whatever reasons don't express themselves in the same way as you do (not addressing you JNK in particular), who may only know how to disagree in ways you don't find to your liking. Of course nastiness and crudeness should be kept to a minimum if possible (seeing that rules are not imposed by owners), but where will you draw the line? Who will be the ultimate arbiter? What will be acceptable and what won't? When you set yourselves up to do those things you[i] are[/i] laying down rules, and you can't have it both ways. You tell people to go to Apneaboard if they don't like the freewheeling here, but then decide you don't really like it either, so what are people to think and do after all?

[Lucyhere]

My response to that would be to suggest that anyone who sees an appeal for courtesy and respect as an elitist position will have to work that out in his own mind and heart, between himself and the mirror.

+1

[jnk...]

As I stated above, you can come to your own conclusions what the answer is based on your own self-examination. I would not presume to answer those questions for YOU.

But yes, truth be told, if there was a place that allowed cpap help to be given as effectively as here but that prevented people from flame-sinking threads most helpful to newbies, I'd follow the exodus there in a heartbeat. But as it stands, imperfect as it is, cpaptalk is still the best there is. I do not consider Dori to have been an elitist here. I recognize she was in a higher tier than I'll ever be. And that's ok. I miss her being here. And we'd all be better off in my opinion if more of us acted as if her dignifying presence was still here to inject some more moderate behavior when most needed.

Only my opinion, given because I assume it to be welcomed by at least a few.

[palerider]

But yes, truth be told, if there was a place that allowed cpap help to be given as effectively as here but that prevented people from flame-sinking threads most helpful to newbies, I'd follow the exodus there in a heartbeat.

maybe jason's forum (freecpapadvice.com/forum) is a happy medium. it's not moderated to a 'suitable for eight year olds" like apneabored, but I don't believe he'd hesitate to throw troublemakers off... and no shitheads hiding behind 'guest'.

you can even say "cpaptalk.com" without it being automatically deleted as a dirty word!!! *gasp*

[robysue]

My response to that would be to suggest that anyone who sees an appeal for courtesy and respect as an elitist position will have to work that out in his own mind and heart, between himself and the mirror.

+1

Self moderation is, at its heart, about being courtesy to people who disagree with you.

Pugsy's attempt with starting this thread is merely an attempt to provide people with a way of trying to get a helping thread un-hijacked by politely asking the flame war participants to take the flame war elsewhere.

Whether people caught in the throes of a flame war in the middle of a helping thread will pay any attention is a different question. And under Johnny's rules, they certainly have the right to continue to make assholes of themselves and continue the flame war in the middle of the helping thread. But maybe occasionally a straightforward, nonjudgemental note that simply says:

• To Person A and Person B: Can you please take your disagreements with each other to a new thread or to PMs?

might make one or two flame war participants look in the mirror and decide that maybe they have hijacked the thread and they might just choose to tone down the posts that are long on flame and short on help.

[Lucyhere]

.

Robysue... telling Person A and Person B to please take their disagreements to another thread or PM is jumping in the middle I think, and as already said, A and B could turn it around and say you're stupid.

kteague's suggestion works best for me. It's less threatening and might be received like it's intended.

1. OP says something clueless.
2. Someone calls them stupid.
3. You say, "There's a lot to learn about this stuff. I remember coming here knowing almost nothing of the lingo or how it all works. Keep reading and focus on those subjects that relate to you and soon you'll be jumping in to help another out as they start their journey.

[jnk...]

.

Robysue... telling Person A and Person B to please take their disagreements to another thread or PM is jumping in the middle I think, and as already said, A and B could turn it around and say you're stupid. . . .

My take on that is that although no one (besides Johnny) has the authority to force flamers to relocate their "discussion," all of us have the right to ask that favor of two people based on the derailment of an active attempt to help a newbie. Preferably that favor would generally be requested by a person doing the helping in that thread, by a person somewhat respected by both flamers, and by a person who would not consider his or her own reputation damaged should he or she get called stupid for making the polite request for the favor. Even if the flamers don't move, the newbie will have the benefit of seeing that the flamers were politely asked to do so as a favor.

[Madalot]

I wanted to posted this a couple days ago, but Photobucket was down.

[Pugsy]

telling Person A and Person B to please take their disagreements to another thread or PM is jumping in the middle I think, and as already said, A and B could turn it around and say you're stupid.

Of course it is jumping in the middle and yes, a person runs the risk of adding gasoline to the flame war and yes...they very well could turn around and attack me and call me stupid. The thread has pretty much been totally derailed by the time I would end up doing this anyway.
But I have been called much worse and I have thick skin (for the most part) and I can handle it.

People are already jumping in the middle anyway..those others that just have to get their points in about how big of an asshole someone is....hell, let's jump in the middle with an effort to help instead of just point fingers and do some name calling of our own.

To Everyone...not just Lucy:

I am pretty sure everyone here is smart enough to see the asshole(s) for what they are. I know I don't need multiple people chiming in and pointing out that fact. It does nothing to help the derailing of the thread either.

My goals are pretty simple.
1...to make one civil attempt to get the fight to stop or be taken elsewhere (and I really don't care where as long as it is out of the helping thread).
2...if number 1 fails..then I am at least letting the OP in the thread know that the ugly behavior has been noted and we don't all condone such behavior.

If the participants in the ugly behavior (it takes at least two) want to further the fight or attempt to drag me into it with name calling and attacking me....I won't bite. No matter how tempting it might be....I won't bite.
And if they want to call me stupid for attempting to make peace or stop the derailing of a helping thread...well, so be it. I doesn't hurt me and I won't bite. I have a pretty good idea what they are anyway....and it ain't pretty but I have no need to point it out for the world to see because here's the news flash....people already know it.

People are going to argue and very vehemently defend their position...but they don't have to resort to name calling and belittling the other person's position or personally attacking them with name calling, in doing their defending.
There's a lot of "opinions" on how to address various cpap therapy stuff that I don't personally agree with and some of those opinions I actually might find "stupid" but I won't be saying what I think in public and I won't be attacking the person saying it (no matter how much I am tempted and believe me...I do understand the temptation)...I will simply post my own opinion and let it speak for itself and not even mention the other opinion I don't agree with.
I do this in some form nearly every day. Unless the other person's opinion is blatantly dangerous I won't even draw attention to it.

The Time out thing (for me anyway) is more for when the difference in opinions has deteriorated to pretty much name calling and not polite discussion of the difference of opinion. It's for when the thread has gone past being side track and is full blown derailed mode. I think most of us know the difference. If I see a thread going sideways a bit...I won't just jump right in at that time...I am going to wait to see if it gets totally derailed. Sometimes the sideways thing ends up getting righted on its own and there's no full blown derailment.
And yes I suppose this is my own personal line in the sand but it's what I feel comfortable with. I am NOT saying people should adopt my personal line in the sand. You all are all grown ups and should be able to figure where your line in the sand is.

A heated discussion about various cpap therapy opinions isn't a derailment IMHO. The derailment is when the name calling shit slinging stuff starts and no more discussion is happening... again IMHO.

I don't want to try to stop heated discussions...I just don't want them to deteriorate into nothing but name calling and attacking. Heated discussions will always be a part of this forum...and yes, some can get pretty heated but they can be had without blatant name calling that does nothing but show what an asshole the person doing the name calling is.
It's just a matter of a few little word changes...instead of "you are stupid"...maybe try "I respectfully disagree and here's why"...stuff like that. And if they come back with "you are an idiot"...hey, they are showing their true colors and I won't be crawling down in the mud with them.

[Pugsy]

My take on that is that although no one (besides Johnny) has the authority to force flamers to relocate their "discussion," all of us have the right to ask that favor of two people based on the derailment of an active attempt to help a newbie. Preferably that favor would generally be requested by a person doing the helping in that thread, by a person somewhat respected by both flamers, and by a person who would not consider his or her own reputation damaged should he or she get called stupid for making the polite request for the favor. Even if the flamers don't move, the newbie will have the benefit of seeing that the flamers were politely asked to do so as a favor.

That's pretty much my thoughts in a nutshell.
Will it work? Beats the hell out of me but if it saves one thread I think it is worth it.
And if it doesn't work...we at least tried to fix the problem.

[jnk...]

. . . Beats the hell out of me . . .

My hope is that no one tries to in one of those threads.

[Guest]

Here is an example of misinformation that regardless of what words you choose or how you string em together will snowball and blowup a thread if you said anything. He is the same one who would be shouting vulgar names if anyone else posted anything contrary to his comment that was not correct.

I challenge anyone here to try out their tactics on this rascal.

I didn't know there was a filter for the hose! Thank you! I'll have to see if my local shop has that in stock.

Keep in mind that moisture from a humidifier will clog these filters right up so use it w/o the humidifier to see if that helps you..

ab filters work fine with the humidifier.

Obviously he has never used this type of filter nor read the directions.

He is the one who ironically posted the arstechnica link to an article titled "Revisiting why incompetents think they’re awesome".