Tips on keeping mouth closed

[isaac99]

After analysing the stats using the sleepyhead software for my 2ND night of ever using CPAP treatment ( RESMED 10 & Quattro full face mask), I again, like the 1ST night, had crazily high statistics for leakage amount and the duration at which it was leaking hugely. After noticing that for the first 20mins of the data, the leakage was small ( < 15 L/min at a pressure of around 4 ), I do believe it is not my mask fitting, but rather that when falling into asleep, as I would have done after about 20mins, I MUST be 'sleeping' with an open mouth. Hence the huge jump up in leakage after this and for the vast majority of the night.

Tonight I am going to try nasal strips which are meant to help encourage good airways for breathing through the nose, as well as some mentholated gel under my nose.
Any advice on how to keep the mouth closed during the night ? I have heard of chin straps but was a little concerned whether there may be brief times in the night when I may really need my mouth open to obtain enough air and that the strap may end up restricting this to the point of it being quite dangerous ?

Im currently trying to focus on breathing through my nose when I lay down but it seems subconsciously as I doze off, my mouth is opening, increasing the leakage hugely and obviously waking unrefreshed with a very dry mouth.

Any tips will be greatly received

[Jay Aitchsee]

Hi, Isaac

The first thing you should do is register your username, up at the right near the top. Registration will allow you to better use the forum features. You will not have to contend with the captcha, for example, if you register and then Log In to post. You will be able to include your equipment in your profile, making it easier for others to help you and you will have access to private mail.

Regarding your leaks. If you are using a FFM (Quattro), mouth breathing will not be interpreted as a leak. A possibility is that your chin is falling out of the mask and leaks are occurring through your mouth outside the mask, but that is a result of the mask seal and not mouth breathing directly.

Mouth breathing (expiration) is interpreted as a leak with nasal masks because with a nasal mask the machine has no way to measure any flow that escapes from the mouth. However, with a FFM, flow is detected whether it comes from the nose or mouth. In very simple terms Leak=Inspiration volume minus Expiration Volume.

[LSAT]

+1 I agree....Be sure you have the correct size mask and are fitting it properly.
https://maskarrayed.wordpress.com/tamin ... e-quattro/

[Isaac99]

OK Thank you I will keep trying !!

[Jay Aitchsee]

Good job on the registration!
Next you want to go to the control panel (upper left) and complete your profile.
If you obtain the software to examine your data https://sleep.tnet.com/resources/sleepyhead it may give you a clue as to the nature of your leaks.
If you post screen shots of your data, people could help you with the interpretation
https://sleep.tnet.com/resources/sleepyhead/shorganize
https://sleep.tnet.com/reference/tips/imgur

[Isaac99]

Thanks I will do !

[Guest]

I was able to do it by using a mouthguard found in the sporting section at Walmart. Put it in your mouth when going to sleep for as long as it takes but also be conscious while you are awake how you are breathing. If you breath thru your mouth all day it will be hard to loose that habit when sleeping.

Look at Bill Clinton he breathes thru his mouth all the time.

[Pugsy]

Mouth breathing doesn't hurt anything if you are using a full face mask and your large leaks wouldn't be from mouth breathing if you are using a full face mask like the Quattro.
Instead it is going to be from mask fit or mask movement.

If it seems to seal well until you fall asleep then it probably means that it is moving around on your face as you maybe moving during sleep.
Or maybe if your jaw drops open during the mouth breathing the seal is broken..so maybe it is that the mouth coming open breaks the seal because you fit it with the mouth closed.

Do you have a lot of nasal congestion that you can't clear up so that you can breathe easily through your nose and not need to mouth breathe?
Some people just mouth breathe out of habit..and then there's people who mouth breathe because they have to.

Make sure that you are using the appropriate size mask.

If you want to verify that it is the mouth opening movement that is breaking the seal...and if you think you are mouth breathing out of habit and not out of a physical need you might try one of the commonly used methods of keeping the mouth closed just to see if that helps with leak control or not.
If you still have big leaks and the mouth stays shut...it's the overall mask fit that is the problem and maybe need to try a different mask.

Alternately...a lot of people like to use a soft cervical collar to help encourage the mouth to stay shut.
If you are having a lot of jaw drop that is the cause of the big leak then a cervical collar might help and they are cheap. So might be worth a try. It sort of supports the jaw/chin so that the mouth doesn't fall open so easily or as much.

[sleepychar]

I just started using a chin strap not quite a week ago. I found it takes a bit of effort to get it adjusted to the best tension but not that hard really. But you might have to adjust it a few times after each of the first few nights to get the best effect. I think it must be helping because my mouth is not as dry when I wake up in the morning. The first day or two or three my mouth was still very dry in the morning, most likely indicating I was still mouth breathing, but the last couple of mornings I have noticed a definite improvement so I think I am not doing as much mouth breathing. However I did wake up last night and found myself exhaling through my mouth. I have not found the chin strap to be so restrictive that I can't open my mouth at all. I can still open my mouth when I want to but I think the chin strap is keeping my jaw from dropping open as I relax into sleep. So I don't think you would have to worry that you might need to breathe through your mouth and not be able to do so. The RT in my DME's office told me that he has found that sometimes people start out needing the chin strap but after awhile they get used to not mouth breathing and are able to discontinue using it. I hope that will be the case for me but, for now, it may not be perfect but it does seem to be helping.

[avi123]

I just started using a chin strap not quite a week ago. I found it takes a bit of effort to get it adjusted to the best tension but not that hard really. But you might have to adjust it a few times after each of the first few nights to get the best effect. I think it must be helping because my mouth is not as dry when I wake up in the morning. The first day or two or three my mouth was still very dry in the morning, most likely indicating I was still mouth breathing, but the last couple of mornings I have noticed a definite improvement so I think I am not doing as much mouth breathing. However I did wake up last night and found myself exhaling through my mouth. I have not found the chin strap to be so restrictive that I can't open my mouth at all. I can still open my mouth when I want to but I think the chin strap is keeping my jaw from dropping open as I relax into sleep. So I don't think you would have to worry that you might need to breathe through your mouth and not be able to do so. The RT in my DME's office told me that he has found that sometimes people start out needing the chin strap but after awhile they get used to not mouth breathing and are able to discontinue using it. I hope that will be the case for me but, for now, it may not be perfect but it does seem to be helping.

Why don't you show some LEAK charts while wearing the chinstrap? I did NOT wear my chinstrap last night and you can the results in this leak chart. Leaks were above the red line:

click:

http://imgur.com/a/Zc7nb

[tan]

Mouth breathing doesn't hurt anything if you are using a full face mask and your large leaks wouldn't be from mouth breathing if you are using a full face mask like the Quattro.

I disagree, mouth breathing can ruin sleep even with acceptable leaks.

[Pugsy]

I disagree, mouth breathing can ruin sleep even with acceptable leaks.

Anything that messes with sleep is unwanted...little leaks, big leaks, dry mouth, my cat wanting to be fed at 4 AM...whatever..
BUT if someone is using a full face mask and they mouth breath it isn't going to harm the therapy itself like it might if someone was using a nasal interface only mask.
That's what I was referring to...the mouth breathing itself affecting the loss of therapy pressure.
The OP in this thread was having massive leaks being reported with his full face mask and thought those leaks were from mouth breathing and was going to try to prevent mouth breathing by some extraordinary measures. I was referring to the technical aspects of reported leaks when using a full face mask.

[ChicagoGranny]

Mouth breathing doesn't hurt anything if you are using a full face mask and your large leaks wouldn't be from mouth breathing if you are using a full face mask like the Quattro.

I disagree, mouth breathing can ruin sleep even with acceptable leaks.

Tan, Your equipment profile shows a FFM. Do you mouth breathe while sleeping?

[tan]

Mouth breathing doesn't hurt anything if you are using a full face mask and your large leaks wouldn't be from mouth breathing if you are using a full face mask like the Quattro.

I disagree, mouth breathing can ruin sleep even with acceptable leaks.

Tan, Your equipment profile shows a FFM. Do you mouth breathe while sleeping?

Yes, I use FFM and do mouth-breathe while sleeping (not wanted). My jaw tends to drop on its own and the bottom of the mask naturally pushes the jaw downward. As a result, my mouth dries out. Neither cervical collar nor chin strap help. But taping mouth with FFM does. Also tried taping with nasal mask - didn't work either.

[tan]

I disagree, mouth breathing can ruin sleep even with acceptable leaks.

Anything that messes with sleep is unwanted...little leaks, big leaks, dry mouth, my cat wanting to be fed at 4 AM...whatever..
BUT if someone is using a full face mask and they mouth breath it isn't going to harm the therapy itself

once again, even "acceptable" leaks ruined my sleep, despite my having FFM. Woke up a few times at night with dry mouth. Maybe because of UARS, when sleep is easily disturbed by minor things.

How many times have you seen "please help, I fully comply, have a low AHI, but am still tired"? Not that I am saying they all have the same issue, but it was exactly that missing piece of the puzzle that let me quit the circle of the "please help, I fully comply, have a low AHI, but am still tired" misery