Hi, I'm new to the forum. First posted my request under wrong topic..sorry!
I was first diagnosed with severe sleep apnea last March through sleep testing lab. Since then I have been on a CPAP machine. This summer I had some intestinal problems which I thought were causing my excess fatigue. However these problems are gone and I still have the extreme fatigue at times. I also have been having trouble sleeping for more than 4 1/2 hours a night even though my current mask (for latex allergy) is quite comfortable and most days I am not letting myself nap. I am off work on medical leave which severely affects my pay and retirement. Besides that I love my job and want to be at work!!!! My doctor has me on a machine which currently measures on an ongoing basis the pressure my body needs to keep my throat unobstructed. My doctor is one of the best in a large metro area, and I like him. I did change doctors last month in hopes of better results.
I have also found that physical activities seem to help get more oxygen into my body and then I feel better. So am often feeling better by night time which isn't very helpful when it comes to going to sleep.
I'd love any suggestions or to hear from anyone who had similar problems with a positive outcome.
I was on provigil for awhile. Just left me feeling very wound up, irritable, and tired but unable to sleep. It did keep me awake but not really all that functional. Yes. I did experiment with different doses.
excess fatigue
Hello Bedhead,
Some cpap patients, no matter what they do, still have excessive daytime sleepiness. Currently there are studies underway that are trying to find out why.
It sounds like you have put a lot of thought into your sleep and have been very proactive. What I would try next, is to work on sleep hygiene. Sleep hygiene could very well be the cause of your daytime sleepiness. I myself have had issues trying to keep my shedule on track while working overnite as a sleep tech. Funny that sleep tech's probably have the worst sleep hygiene of all.
Here is a link that may help,
http://my.webmd.com/hw/sleep_disorders/ ... 31713CA348}
Regards,
T
Some cpap patients, no matter what they do, still have excessive daytime sleepiness. Currently there are studies underway that are trying to find out why.
It sounds like you have put a lot of thought into your sleep and have been very proactive. What I would try next, is to work on sleep hygiene. Sleep hygiene could very well be the cause of your daytime sleepiness. I myself have had issues trying to keep my shedule on track while working overnite as a sleep tech. Funny that sleep tech's probably have the worst sleep hygiene of all.
Here is a link that may help,
http://my.webmd.com/hw/sleep_disorders/ ... 31713CA348}
Regards,
T
I have "idiopathic hypersomnia" in addition to apnea. I am on the provigil and luckily have no problems, but I have been reading about sleepiness remaining after cpap. It seems like many of us have other problems in addition to sleep apnea. Look at streaming news, the older news above. It has several suggestions. I have the apnea, hypersomnia, and diabetes. Even when these are under treatment and fair control I am often still sleepy so I am researching. Keep looking for an answer.
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valerielynn@insightbb.com
daytime sleepiness
I have been using a c-pap for approximately two years. It has helped my night-time sleeping immensely !! However, I still have problems staying awake during the afternoon. I've used Adderil (Which did not help at all) and occasionly I'll use Provigil. I don't use it every day because after the third day, it doesn't do any good. In fact, it feels like I've taken an extra sleeping pill. I'm at the end of my rope !! Everyone at work thinks it's funny-but I'm miserable!!
Please let me know what to take or do ?
Valerie
Please let me know what to take or do ?
Valerie
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Mikerich10
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:13 pm
- Location: London, Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Hi T,
I am also from Kentucky, I see that you are in Frankfort. I grew up (until I was 34) around Elizabethtown, KY. For the past 5 years, I have been in London, Ontario, Canada with my CDN wife. Great to meet you. On the subject though, I wonder if there is hope for me. I have been extremely sleepy for the past 12 years from nonrestorative sleep. I would on average, sleep between 12-14 hours a day and still awake each morning as tired as when I went to bed. Tonight will be my first night on a CPAP, I certainly hope I am not one of the ones that you guys spoke of who still has day time sleepiness even with a CPAP machine. I had tried one about 7 years ago with a nasal mask and could not get used to the air shooting out of my mouth during the middle of the night and gave it up. This time I will be using a full face mask, I feel confident this will be something I can live with. One thing that I have been thinking of a lot lately is why they don't also consider therapy or counselling for people with sleep problems, either with apneas or not. Especially when they still experience problems even after using and adapting to, the use of a CPAP. I recently rewatched the movie "Saving Private Ryan". In the movie there is a scene where they are in a church and they all need to get some sleep even with bombs going off around them, etc. One of the guys is able to lay right down and fall asleep. Another solider coments about how the one guy fell asleep before his head even hit the pillow and wondered how he could do that. A third solider replies "It's because he has a clear concious". That really made me think about how I don't. I honestly don't have true inner peace in my life. Now don't get me wrong, I am not a bad man. I am a Christian man, a loving husband and father, a good provider, etc. But I have still made many mistakes along the way that still haunt me deep inside. My first wife and I divorced when my oldest 2 children were only 2 and 4. Every time I see them and see the scars on their lives from growing up without their father in the house, it reminds me of my failures. In other areas I still remember bad choices I made and awful things I have done in my 39 years. Not terrible things, certainly not anything that the average person hasn't done in their life at least once, but none the less things I wish I could "undo". I wonder sometimes just how much things like this affect our sleep and our daily peace of mind. I certainly don't stay up at night and worry about these things, but I guess what I am saying is "Do you think that these things could be the underlying factor that prevents the quality of sleep we get even when all the obvious apneas, etc have been addressed?" I would appreciate your thougts and those of other members. Perhaps this should be in a thread of it's own.
Talk to you later,
Mikerich10
I am also from Kentucky, I see that you are in Frankfort. I grew up (until I was 34) around Elizabethtown, KY. For the past 5 years, I have been in London, Ontario, Canada with my CDN wife. Great to meet you. On the subject though, I wonder if there is hope for me. I have been extremely sleepy for the past 12 years from nonrestorative sleep. I would on average, sleep between 12-14 hours a day and still awake each morning as tired as when I went to bed. Tonight will be my first night on a CPAP, I certainly hope I am not one of the ones that you guys spoke of who still has day time sleepiness even with a CPAP machine. I had tried one about 7 years ago with a nasal mask and could not get used to the air shooting out of my mouth during the middle of the night and gave it up. This time I will be using a full face mask, I feel confident this will be something I can live with. One thing that I have been thinking of a lot lately is why they don't also consider therapy or counselling for people with sleep problems, either with apneas or not. Especially when they still experience problems even after using and adapting to, the use of a CPAP. I recently rewatched the movie "Saving Private Ryan". In the movie there is a scene where they are in a church and they all need to get some sleep even with bombs going off around them, etc. One of the guys is able to lay right down and fall asleep. Another solider coments about how the one guy fell asleep before his head even hit the pillow and wondered how he could do that. A third solider replies "It's because he has a clear concious". That really made me think about how I don't. I honestly don't have true inner peace in my life. Now don't get me wrong, I am not a bad man. I am a Christian man, a loving husband and father, a good provider, etc. But I have still made many mistakes along the way that still haunt me deep inside. My first wife and I divorced when my oldest 2 children were only 2 and 4. Every time I see them and see the scars on their lives from growing up without their father in the house, it reminds me of my failures. In other areas I still remember bad choices I made and awful things I have done in my 39 years. Not terrible things, certainly not anything that the average person hasn't done in their life at least once, but none the less things I wish I could "undo". I wonder sometimes just how much things like this affect our sleep and our daily peace of mind. I certainly don't stay up at night and worry about these things, but I guess what I am saying is "Do you think that these things could be the underlying factor that prevents the quality of sleep we get even when all the obvious apneas, etc have been addressed?" I would appreciate your thougts and those of other members. Perhaps this should be in a thread of it's own.
Talk to you later,
Mikerich10
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wading thru the muck!
- Posts: 2799
- Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:42 am
Hi Mike,
I can empathize with the feelings you have and how it may affect your sleep quality.
I often have those same feelings of guilt and inadaquacy. Did you know that depression is a symptom of sleep apnea.
Sometimes I think it is not a matter of having a clear conscience but having one at all. This reminds me of the saying ignorance is bliss.
The fact that you feel responsibility for your actions shows you are a good and caring person.
Boy! 12 years of sleeping 12-14 hours per night and still not feeling rested - that is a huge obstacle to overcome. Give youself credit for the positive you've created in your life in spite of what you've endured.
Remember to keep loving your kids and let them know that you do. Also appologize to them for all you feel you need to appologize for - they'll forgive you.
Get yourself treated and you may find your illness is the cause of your worries and not your worries the cause of your illness.
May God Bless you with light at the end of your difficult journey.
Very Sincerely,
Steve
I can empathize with the feelings you have and how it may affect your sleep quality.
I often have those same feelings of guilt and inadaquacy. Did you know that depression is a symptom of sleep apnea.
Sometimes I think it is not a matter of having a clear conscience but having one at all. This reminds me of the saying ignorance is bliss.
The fact that you feel responsibility for your actions shows you are a good and caring person.
Boy! 12 years of sleeping 12-14 hours per night and still not feeling rested - that is a huge obstacle to overcome. Give youself credit for the positive you've created in your life in spite of what you've endured.
Remember to keep loving your kids and let them know that you do. Also appologize to them for all you feel you need to appologize for - they'll forgive you.
Get yourself treated and you may find your illness is the cause of your worries and not your worries the cause of your illness.
May God Bless you with light at the end of your difficult journey.
Very Sincerely,
Steve
Hello From Kenucky,
Depression is common among untreated and may still linger even after being treated. I can remember having the symptoms of sleep apnea when I was 21 and now I am 42. The regret part is normal. I sometimes feel that i have wasted alot of time on my career and personal life because I was too tired to really get in there and compete with the well rested.
I know this for sure.. When I was untreated, if felt unsure about my life. It has taken me quite some time to get into the groove of being rested, clear thinking and productive to my potential.
I don't think any of us should carry around burdens of our life that have passed. All of us usually pay for life's mistakes, even if it is just beating ourselves up over it.
Just remember, ever day is a new day. Every day is a chance to live the way you want to live, and help your fellow man.
Here is a thought to chew on.
When we are dead for 10,000 years, that will only be a minute sliver of the time we will remain in that state. Life is short. Love every minute.
As Warren Zevon said near the end of his life, "Love every sandwhich".
God Bless,
Ted
Depression is common among untreated and may still linger even after being treated. I can remember having the symptoms of sleep apnea when I was 21 and now I am 42. The regret part is normal. I sometimes feel that i have wasted alot of time on my career and personal life because I was too tired to really get in there and compete with the well rested.
I know this for sure.. When I was untreated, if felt unsure about my life. It has taken me quite some time to get into the groove of being rested, clear thinking and productive to my potential.
I don't think any of us should carry around burdens of our life that have passed. All of us usually pay for life's mistakes, even if it is just beating ourselves up over it.
Just remember, ever day is a new day. Every day is a chance to live the way you want to live, and help your fellow man.
Here is a thought to chew on.
When we are dead for 10,000 years, that will only be a minute sliver of the time we will remain in that state. Life is short. Love every minute.
As Warren Zevon said near the end of his life, "Love every sandwhich".
God Bless,
Ted
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Mikerich10
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:13 pm
- Location: London, Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Steve, Thank you so much for your encouraging words. I did go to my children a few years ago and apologize to them and yes, they did forgive me. Kids are so awesome that way. I think the trouble is that the person that is always the hardest for you to forgive is your self. Maybe that is the problem. I didn't realize that depression was related to apnea, although it does make perfect sense. Yes, 12 years is a long time to go untreated. Over that time I have tried taking everything from Valerian root to Melotonin without reults. I am currently on Amitriptylene (Elavil) at 10 mg.
Thanks,
Mike
Mike
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Mikerich10
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:13 pm
- Location: London, Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Ted,
Thanks for the words of wisdom. I will try to adhear to them. It is morning now after my first night on CPAP with the full face mask. It actually went pretty well. I left the mask on all night and I awoke about 2 hours before normal and thought it was normal time. Not 12 hours mind you. For the past 2 months or so, I have went to bed around 11 or 12 and just up around 8:45. This morning I woke at 7:30 and thought it like 9:00 or after, so I think it was good. Our sheets weren't in a twisted mess like usual and I don't remember much turning at all. The only problem I remember was waking slightly once last night with a dry mouth, apparently I slept most of the night with my mouth open in the full mask. I had the heater on 3 and i can remember while going to sleep thinking it may be too warm.
I can certainly relate to those untreated feelings and feeling uncapable of competing with the rested. I look forward to becoming one of them in the future. I am praying I will finally get back to myself and the clear thinking of my youth. It has been so long since I have had that kind of clarity.
Thanks again guys, you have given me much more than I could have hoped for from this forum. You all are awesome. Thank you.
Thanks for the words of wisdom. I will try to adhear to them. It is morning now after my first night on CPAP with the full face mask. It actually went pretty well. I left the mask on all night and I awoke about 2 hours before normal and thought it was normal time. Not 12 hours mind you. For the past 2 months or so, I have went to bed around 11 or 12 and just up around 8:45. This morning I woke at 7:30 and thought it like 9:00 or after, so I think it was good. Our sheets weren't in a twisted mess like usual and I don't remember much turning at all. The only problem I remember was waking slightly once last night with a dry mouth, apparently I slept most of the night with my mouth open in the full mask. I had the heater on 3 and i can remember while going to sleep thinking it may be too warm.
I can certainly relate to those untreated feelings and feeling uncapable of competing with the rested. I look forward to becoming one of them in the future. I am praying I will finally get back to myself and the clear thinking of my youth. It has been so long since I have had that kind of clarity.
Thanks again guys, you have given me much more than I could have hoped for from this forum. You all are awesome. Thank you.
Thanks,
Mike
Mike
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wading thru the muck!
- Posts: 2799
- Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:42 am
Mike,
Seems you're the right road. Just keep moving down that road and you'll get where you want to go. Take care of yourself and give youself the time you need to get better.
Godspeed!
P.S. a side note: I love your website - looks like some fun stuff
Seems you're the right road. Just keep moving down that road and you'll get where you want to go. Take care of yourself and give youself the time you need to get better.
Godspeed!
P.S. a side note: I love your website - looks like some fun stuff
Sincerely,
wading thru the muck of the sleep study/DME/Insurance money pit!
wading thru the muck of the sleep study/DME/Insurance money pit!
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Mikerich10
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:13 pm
- Location: London, Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Bedhead, during my years of fatigue before being diagnosed with sleep apnea, I found a few things that made a difference.
The first was getting some morning sun if at all possible. I picked this up by reading about Seaonal Affective Disorder which is not actually a seasonal condition at all. It can affect anyone that does not get much sunlight.
The second is vitamin D. There have been very interesting articles on this recently. Vitamin D is created when the sun strikes the skin. Our ancestors literally got ten times as much was we do. I struggled with this one for a while because I found that more helped, but raising the dose too fast made me feel worse again.
My prostate problems which were quite severe are now all but gone! According to my dentist my gums were in terrible shape, but during my last cleaning they were amazed at how much they had improved. I then found an article saying that vitamin D is related to gum inflammation. This was all before finding out I had sleep apnea.
I do this. I am now at 1600 units and raising it by 400 units every four weeks. More often than that is too fast!
Don't use fish oil tablets. I know I'm allergic to them and they make me feel more fatigued. Instead I use pure vitamin D. I only know of two brands of this, TwinLab and Freeda. Both are available on the web.
Then there are the usual sources of fatigue like diabetes or thyroid problems. Docs often overlook parathyroid problems (a completely different gland). Ask about this too.
The first was getting some morning sun if at all possible. I picked this up by reading about Seaonal Affective Disorder which is not actually a seasonal condition at all. It can affect anyone that does not get much sunlight.
The second is vitamin D. There have been very interesting articles on this recently. Vitamin D is created when the sun strikes the skin. Our ancestors literally got ten times as much was we do. I struggled with this one for a while because I found that more helped, but raising the dose too fast made me feel worse again.
My prostate problems which were quite severe are now all but gone! According to my dentist my gums were in terrible shape, but during my last cleaning they were amazed at how much they had improved. I then found an article saying that vitamin D is related to gum inflammation. This was all before finding out I had sleep apnea.
I do this. I am now at 1600 units and raising it by 400 units every four weeks. More often than that is too fast!
Don't use fish oil tablets. I know I'm allergic to them and they make me feel more fatigued. Instead I use pure vitamin D. I only know of two brands of this, TwinLab and Freeda. Both are available on the web.
Then there are the usual sources of fatigue like diabetes or thyroid problems. Docs often overlook parathyroid problems (a completely different gland). Ask about this too.
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Linda D
...be gentle, I'm new...
I'm only now finding this web site and reading some of the discussions.
Last nite I had my first sleep lab test. I haven't yet gotten back with the doctor for results and treatment, but the technician says I have this apnea thing. So my curiousity got me here. These discussions seem encouraging yet scary.
If my boss catches me asleep one more time, I'm gone. It took two doctors to convince me to be tested for sleep apnea. I knew little about it. It seemed like a silly disorder and not a "real" medical condition. It wasn't until the job threat and my doctor saying my oxygen level was dangerously low that I took it seriously. Now I'm all nerves, but glad to see your discussion site. All your advice seems helpful. Thanks.
Linda
Last nite I had my first sleep lab test. I haven't yet gotten back with the doctor for results and treatment, but the technician says I have this apnea thing. So my curiousity got me here. These discussions seem encouraging yet scary.
If my boss catches me asleep one more time, I'm gone. It took two doctors to convince me to be tested for sleep apnea. I knew little about it. It seemed like a silly disorder and not a "real" medical condition. It wasn't until the job threat and my doctor saying my oxygen level was dangerously low that I took it seriously. Now I'm all nerves, but glad to see your discussion site. All your advice seems helpful. Thanks.
Linda
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Mikerich10
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:13 pm
- Location: London, Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Linda,
I can apprecaite you apprehension but believe me, it is a real medical condition. Actually there are several conditions that are considered very real and well known conditions that stem directly from sleep apnea. It does also seem overwhelming I am sure to come on here and here of all the problems some people have with getting use to the CPAP machine, etc. but honestly it is so very worth it. While the sleep techs and Dr's will tell you that on average, it will take up to 4 weeks to get use to the machine and actually see results. I do think that is wise to advise people like that, but personally I have already began to see positive results and last night was only my 2nd night on the CPAP. Although about 7 years ago I tried one and never could get used to it and stopped using it. Part of that was due to not having proper support as I simply was uneducated and didn't have access to a forum like this or even a good sleep clinic that would suggest alternatives. As a reult here I am 7 years later learning that a full face mask was the simple solution to my problems. It really ticks me to know though that I could have enjoyed freedom from the effects 7 years ago. Especially when you consider I have had these sleep problems for 12 years. While I do believe that the CPAP is the key to beating this, it is not the only tool we have. Education is a close second. Learning of all the simple everyday things that can make all the difference is vital. Caffiene abstinance, exercise, weight loss, drowsiness awareness, regular meal and sleep times, etc etc etc all have to put into practice to really get a second chance at life, to actually feel like living. But isn't it all worth it? I ceratinly am not there yet, but I do feel I am in the right direction. Just remember, we didn't get this sleep drived overnight and we are not going to be fully rested and back to normal overnight either. But it is a journey worth taking.
God bless you, please hang with it,
I can apprecaite you apprehension but believe me, it is a real medical condition. Actually there are several conditions that are considered very real and well known conditions that stem directly from sleep apnea. It does also seem overwhelming I am sure to come on here and here of all the problems some people have with getting use to the CPAP machine, etc. but honestly it is so very worth it. While the sleep techs and Dr's will tell you that on average, it will take up to 4 weeks to get use to the machine and actually see results. I do think that is wise to advise people like that, but personally I have already began to see positive results and last night was only my 2nd night on the CPAP. Although about 7 years ago I tried one and never could get used to it and stopped using it. Part of that was due to not having proper support as I simply was uneducated and didn't have access to a forum like this or even a good sleep clinic that would suggest alternatives. As a reult here I am 7 years later learning that a full face mask was the simple solution to my problems. It really ticks me to know though that I could have enjoyed freedom from the effects 7 years ago. Especially when you consider I have had these sleep problems for 12 years. While I do believe that the CPAP is the key to beating this, it is not the only tool we have. Education is a close second. Learning of all the simple everyday things that can make all the difference is vital. Caffiene abstinance, exercise, weight loss, drowsiness awareness, regular meal and sleep times, etc etc etc all have to put into practice to really get a second chance at life, to actually feel like living. But isn't it all worth it? I ceratinly am not there yet, but I do feel I am in the right direction. Just remember, we didn't get this sleep drived overnight and we are not going to be fully rested and back to normal overnight either. But it is a journey worth taking.
God bless you, please hang with it,
Thanks,
Mike
Mike
Thanks, Mike
(I'm the Linda who posted earlier; I've registered)
Thanks for the encouraging words. It was like a breath of fresh air -- so to speak -- locating this discussion forum. Although I've only read a few of the entries so far, I can see how this forum can help. I'm basically alone, and although I've told a few people about this, I imagine they don't understand or believe it's a "real" medical condition. Paranoia in me imagines that they're thinking "She needs a doctor for that?!" But in only one day this forum has already armed me with helpful questions I need to take with me on my next trip to the doctor.
One thing I've wondered, does sleep position ever help? Does sleeping at an angle help keep the obstructions open more often? I don't know if my grandmother had sleep apnea but I know she slept with many big pillows which elevated her a little. I prefer sleeping flat, but would that do any good?
Anyhow, good luck to your success with the treatment. You seem so upbeat about it, I'm encouraged. If I can reduce my exhaution even a little, it will be a big help. Wish you all the best.
Linda
Thanks for the encouraging words. It was like a breath of fresh air -- so to speak -- locating this discussion forum. Although I've only read a few of the entries so far, I can see how this forum can help. I'm basically alone, and although I've told a few people about this, I imagine they don't understand or believe it's a "real" medical condition. Paranoia in me imagines that they're thinking "She needs a doctor for that?!" But in only one day this forum has already armed me with helpful questions I need to take with me on my next trip to the doctor.
One thing I've wondered, does sleep position ever help? Does sleeping at an angle help keep the obstructions open more often? I don't know if my grandmother had sleep apnea but I know she slept with many big pillows which elevated her a little. I prefer sleeping flat, but would that do any good?
Anyhow, good luck to your success with the treatment. You seem so upbeat about it, I'm encouraged. If I can reduce my exhaution even a little, it will be a big help. Wish you all the best.
Linda