New User (CPAP 5 months) (Forum 20 minutes) :-) Giving Up!

[FuturePokerPro]

Hi Everyone!
I live in the UK and have been prescribed CPAP treatment by my local NHS Trust. I have been using the machine for about five months now and I have an excellent CPAP nurse who I see every 2 to 4 weeks. I have a lot of issues/questions/concerns and will probably write for England so please bear with me.
History: Not had an uninterrupted nights sleep for about 20 years (53 years old) Been on Sertraline (Zoloft Lustral) for 20 years. Survivor of Horrific Emotional Abuse which causes Night Terrors / Bad Dreams Diagnosed with Severe Sleep Apnea 7 months ago.
Situation: I have been using the machine for about 5 months now and my CPAP nurse is pleased with my progress although I only manage just under 4 hours of continuous sleep and my sleep pattern is very broken.
I naively expected to put the mask on and sleep uninterrupted for 8 hours straight away . Ok I realise that was a completely unrealistic expectation but I certainly expected things to be better than they are by now and I am considering giving up CPAP and returning to my old sleeping habits.
What I don't understand is why I have such deep dreams most nights when all the medical information on Sleep Apnea says that the condition prevents you from ever entering REM or sleep deep enough to dream! I think my sleeping patterns were better without the CPAP machine but of course my Nurse reports from the SD card that I do not have any Sleep Apnea when I use the machine.
I guess my main concern is the scare stories / messages that untreated Sleep Apnea MAY lead to heart problems and Diabetes etc.
I am aware that the word "May" is always inserted in those statements so that suggests to me that it is not a given! Also my Father had an Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm diagnosed and monitored and it eventually reached the stage where it needed operating on due to the risk of it bursting (usually instant or fairly instant death) but he chose not to have it done and lived a further 15 years and died of Kidney failure!!!!!!
Anyway I have gone on too long for my first post but I would really welcome any advice that anyone can give and particularly any opinions relating to the things I have highlighted but ..............please nice replies only this world is bad enough without resorting to getting your personality disorders out for the lads/lasses which so often happens on forums!

Thanks everyone

Mike UK

[palerider]

What I don't understand is why I have such deep dreams most nights when all the medical information on Sleep Apnea says that the condition prevents you from ever entering REM or sleep deep enough to dream! I think my sleeping patterns were better without the CPAP machine

the brain will dream, no matter what, when it can if it gets desperate enough.

I recently ended up in the hospital, for a variety of things, but one of the side effects was that I hadn't been able to sleep, ANY, for about three days, by the time I was in the ER (ED to you), I was to the point of having visual hallucinations whenever I'd close my eyes, I'd see light shows and patterns and all sorts of weird shit. this went on for some time, until I was stable enough that I could actually get a little bit of sleep and let my brain start processing things.

normally most dreams do happen in REM, but when you can't sleep well enough to have a normal sleep cycle, such as when you have sleep apnea, then the brain starts snatching dream time anytime it can, even in short naps where you're nowhere close to REM.

also, under normal circumstances, if you REMEMBER your dreams, you got roused during or very shortly after they ended, because normally, the dreams fade from memory very quickly after they're over.

[GettingBetter]

Hi Everyone!
I live in the UK and have been prescribed CPAP treatment by my local NHS Trust. I have been using the machine for about five months now and I have an excellent CPAP nurse who I see every 2 to 4 weeks. I have a lot of issues/questions/concerns and will probably write for England so please bear with me.
History: Not had an uninterrupted nights sleep for about 20 years (53 years old) Been on Sertraline (Zoloft Lustral) for 20 years. Survivor of Horrific Emotional Abuse which causes Night Terrors / Bad Dreams Diagnosed with Severe Sleep Apnea 7 months ago.
Situation: I have been using the machine for about 5 months now and my CPAP nurse is pleased with my progress although I only manage just under 4 hours of continuous sleep and my sleep pattern is very broken.
I naively expected to put the mask on and sleep uninterrupted for 8 hours straight away . Ok I realise that was a completely unrealistic expectation but I certainly expected things to be better than they are by now and I am considering giving up CPAP and returning to my old sleeping habits.
What I don't understand is why I have such deep dreams most nights when all the medical information on Sleep Apnea says that the condition prevents you from ever entering REM or sleep deep enough to dream! I think my sleeping patterns were better without the CPAP machine but of course my Nurse reports from the SD card that I do not have any Sleep Apnea when I use the machine.
I guess my main concern is the scare stories / messages that untreated Sleep Apnea MAY lead to heart problems and Diabetes etc.
I am aware that the word "May" is always inserted in those statements so that suggests to me that it is not a given! Also my Father had an Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm diagnosed and monitored and it eventually reached the stage where it needed operating on due to the risk of it bursting (usually instant or fairly instant death) but he chose not to have it done and lived a further 15 years and died of Kidney failure!!!!!!
Anyway I have gone on too long for my first post but I would really welcome any advice that anyone can give and particularly any opinions relating to the things I have highlighted but ..............please nice replies only this world is bad enough without resorting to getting your personality disorders out for the lads/lasses which so often happens on forums!

Thanks everyone

Mike UK

Hey Mike!

I was really glad to read your post, just because I too am a victim of my unrealistic expectations and years of interrupted sleep patterns. lol I've set one goal I think is realistic - At 100 days, My AHI will be below 3 for a least 7 consecutive days and I will be sleeping at least 6 hours uninterrupted for 7 days in a row. I'm rewarding myself with new sheets if I can accomplish this.

Right now I've made it 3 days under 3 and zero days of 6 hours uninterrupted sleep. I'm on day 49. I think this is probably doable.

My Father has a history of heart problems too. I really believe that my medicine resistant high blood pressure, which is a big part of my heart problem, is from years of untreated and un-diagnosed apnea. I try not to think too much about these things because really, it doesn't move me forward. I remember that I'm on day 49. I have a goal, that I might reach by 100 days or 125 days.

I try to be good to myself and remember that the CPAP is part of self care, not self torture.

What are your goals that maybe aren't so unrealistic? lol

[49er]

Hi Everyone!
I live in the UK and have been prescribed CPAP treatment by my local NHS Trust. I have been using the machine for about five months now and I have an excellent CPAP nurse who I see every 2 to 4 weeks. I have a lot of issues/questions/concerns and will probably write for England so please bear with me.
History: Not had an uninterrupted nights sleep for about 20 years (53 years old) Been on Sertraline (Zoloft Lustral) for 20 years. Survivor of Horrific Emotional Abuse which causes Night Terrors / Bad Dreams Diagnosed with Severe Sleep Apnea 7 months ago.
Situation: I have been using the machine for about 5 months now and my CPAP nurse is pleased with my progress although I only manage just under 4 hours of continuous sleep and my sleep pattern is very broken.
I naively expected to put the mask on and sleep uninterrupted for 8 hours straight away . Ok I realise that was a completely unrealistic expectation but I certainly expected things to be better than they are by now and I am considering giving up CPAP and returning to my old sleeping habits.
What I don't understand is why I have such deep dreams most nights when all the medical information on Sleep Apnea says that the condition prevents you from ever entering REM or sleep deep enough to dream! I think my sleeping patterns were better without the CPAP machine but of course my Nurse reports from the SD card that I do not have any Sleep Apnea when I use the machine.
I guess my main concern is the scare stories / messages that untreated Sleep Apnea MAY lead to heart problems and Diabetes etc.
I am aware that the word "May" is always inserted in those statements so that suggests to me that it is not a given! Also my Father had an Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm diagnosed and monitored and it eventually reached the stage where it needed operating on due to the risk of it bursting (usually instant or fairly instant death) but he chose not to have it done and lived a further 15 years and died of Kidney failure!!!!!!
Anyway I have gone on too long for my first post but I would really welcome any advice that anyone can give and particularly any opinions relating to the things I have highlighted but ..............please nice replies only this world is bad enough without resorting to getting your personality disorders out for the lads/lasses which so often happens on forums!

Thanks everyone

Mike UK

Mike,

As one who has greatly struggled with pap therapy and is looking into alternatives, I understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately, I have found when I don't use the machine, my sleep is alot worse. I also don't feel the warnings are scare tactics as an FYI.

If you chose to return the machine, I would make sure you had an alternative lined up such as a dental device, provent before you did. Regarding surgery, you might want to look at the Inspire Procedure as that is the least invasive in my opinion.

I know you have been on Zoloft for a long time but could that be causing sleep problems since SSRIs are known to do that? Are you taking any other meds that might be an issue? I might look at this issue before even thinking about returning the cpap. But again, if you come to that decision, don't do it before having an alternative in place. Not treating your apnea is not an option.

49er

[Oltremare]

I am a beginner of therapy for OSA, but in a few months I have already had significant improvements in my overall health.
Control of arterial blood gas analysis (EGA), after 4 months of therapy, all six values out of range, they came back normal.
My high blood pressure has disappeared!
My elderly father, OSAS has untreated. After many years, he has developed many pathologies (related ???) including Stroke, heart attack, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc.
I think you have to have a lot of patience and a lot of resistance, it is really worth!
I agree with what he wrote 49er "don't do it before having an alternative in place."
Courage.

[Sleeprider]

Sertraline/ Zoloft is associated with numerous sleep disturbance disorders and may be more of a root cause than CPAP for that aspect of your experience. The health risks of untreated sleep apnea and the stresses it puts on the heart are real. Your rationalization that untreated apnea "may" cause heart problems, sound a lot like a smoker that rationalizes continuing the habit because smoking "may" cause xyz problems. It's also irrational to link this to your father's aortic aneurism or his ultimate kidney failure to justify why you should be fine if you quit CPAP; there is simply no connection.

A more positive course of action would be to take some control of your therapy, understand it, and use the data from your machine to improve its effectiveness. At least that is what this forum is all about. We're not really here to enable you to quit, so it seems reasonable to assume your post is a call for help. We're here for you for that. The next step is up to you. Complete your profile so we know what machine you're using, and if you can post some details about your sleep aponea diagnosis (types and numbers of events, desaturation level etc), we can maybe get you back on a positive track towards improving, rather than quitting your therapy.

Best wishes!

[R1200ST]

Please stick with it. There are forum members here that was work with you to optimize your treatment. Post your machine and mask, get a picture of your sleepyhead results, post them and work through the issues. Your DME sounds nice, but is she REALLY helping you out, or just giving encouragement?

I went through 5 different masks and two different machine settings, and changes to my humidity settings before I "settled" in. This is month 4, out of a 7 day period I see 5 of 7 with 8 hours sleep, and 2 of 7 with at least 6 hours of sleep. It is NOT uninterrupted sleep, I still toss and turn till the bed sheets are wrapped up around me, and once in a while the hose goes around my neck, but in general I am well rested when I get up in the morning.

This is a complete lifestyle change. Stroke, heart attack, high blood pressure are not SCARE TACTICS. This is real life, real world issues that are a result of untreated Apnea. I had high blood pressure, high cholesterol, lost my gall bladder to chronic inflammation, weight gain, loss of energy, loss of sexual ability ALL due to sleep apnea. All of these issues are going away now that I am getting better rest.

Do it ONE DAY AT A TIME. Work one issue at a time. Don't compound your issues into one big lump.

Help is here. Just come get it.

[starbuck]

R1200ST's Post is spot-on. From personal experience I would be looking more at your drug therapy than the CPAP therapy.

[WindCpap]

I suspect from the way your post is worded, that you are often sleeping without your cpap. When you do this, you train your brain to keep you awake until it can get the kind of cpap-free sleep it wants. If you are interested in continuing with cpap, your best option is to grab the bull by the horns, and take control of the situation. This means refusing to sleep without it. It really is empowering once you wrap your head around it.

As for the heart trouble warnings, think about it logically. When you have an apnea, your carbon dioxide rises while your oxygen lowers. Due to the high amount of carbon dioxide, your body produces adrenaline in an attempt to increase your respiration. Your heart starts beating faster in a low oxygen environment. You wake up (or almost wake up), normalize, and fall back to sleep. This happens many times per hour. The heart damage is not a maybe, it is a definite, as is your inability to enter restorative deep sleep.

[FuturePokerPro]

Dear All

Thank you so much for all your replies which are all very much appreciated. (Then again most if not all of you are living in the Greatest country on earth (USA) ) so I probably shouldn't be surprised. Not that I am biased or anything but I am one Brit that wishes he had been born American!

I will post more details later but for now just to clarify a point or two.

Yes my post is a "cry for help!" I am certainly not quitting yet (I didn't overcome my childhood abuse to now work in Mental Health myself by quitting)
I am more than sure now that my SSRI is not helping but that is an issue for my Doctor and I (given my Mental Health History)
I wear my CPAP mask EVERY night! But sometimes end up throwing it across the bed and swearing

My plan for the immediate future is to carry on with my CPAP and begin Sleep Restriction Therapy (my work colleagues and friends have been put on Red Alert!!) at the same time which will more than likely be very challenging for a bit but it is the treatment of choice over the pond here in the UK.

Thanks again everyone

Mike

[Wulfman...]

Dear All

Thank you so much for all your replies which are all very much appreciated. (Then again most if not all of you are living in the Greatest country on earth (USA) ) so I probably shouldn't be surprised. Not that I am biased or anything but I am one Brit that wishes he had been born American!

I will post more details later but for now just to clarify a point or two.

Yes my post is a "cry for help!" I am certainly not quitting yet (I didn't overcome my childhood abuse to now work in Mental Health myself by quitting)
I am more than sure now that my SSRI is not helping but that is an issue for my Doctor and I (given my Mental Health History)
I wear my CPAP mask EVERY night! But sometimes end up throwing it across the bed and swearing

My plan for the immediate future is to carry on with my CPAP and begin Sleep Restriction Therapy (my work colleagues and friends have been put on Red Alert!!) at the same time which will more than likely be very challenging for a bit but it is the treatment of choice over the pond here in the UK.

Thanks again everyone

Mike

Glad to hear you're not giving up. We're here to help. We have many members from around the world who share similar challenges with this therapy. Stick with it. It'll pay off at some point. We're all different and the adjustment/recovery times vary from person to person.


Den

.

[FuturePokerPro]

Thanks Den and everyone else earlier
Mike