Still having mask problems after 2 months

[PEF]

I just love the Airfit P10 and Swift FX pillow masks that I have. But I have a receded jawline. My face is fairly normal in the nose/cheeks region, so they fit me very well, especially the Swift. The problem is that, as soon as I begin to fall asleep, I get massive leakage into my mouth. I know that I need to keep my tongue on the roof of my mouth and forward, but I suspect it falls back as soon as I start to fall asleep. Tape over my mouth does not help because that does not stop the air from leaking into my mouth. But I did notice that the leaks into my mouth are coming from the left side only where I have 2 missing molars, creating a hole on that side. I can block the hole when I am awake, but my tongue must be falling back later. So I think the missing molars and the tongue falling backwards are my issues. I have 2 questions:

1. Will my brain get trained if I just stick with it? The problem is that I can't make it through a night like this because I awake constantly and eventually give up after a few hours and take off the mask. I just have to get some sleep.

2. Has anyone heard of a product called "The Good Morning Snore Solution"? I was thinking something like could hold my tongue forward while I use my pillow masks. Has anyone had any experience with this product? This product uses suction to hold the tongue forward. I cannot use any dental appliance that tries to pull my jaw forward.

[kteague]

Is your experience the same in every sleep position? Just wondering if stomach sleeping would cause the tongue, with the help of gravity, to fill any gaps? Or would a basic mouthpiece (not one to pull the job forward) would cover the gap contributing to your leaks? I don't know. Maybe someone with similar facial structure will come along with ideas regarding masks best suited for you. Good luck.

[ChicagoGranny]

The problem is that, as soon as I begin to fall asleep, I get massive leakage into my mouth.

Standard procedure, in a case like this, is to try a chinstrap. Have you tried one?

If you could not get a chinstrap to work, the standard procedure is to then try a full face mask.

"The Good Morning Snore Solution"

You are looking at unconventional solutions. I imagine this product works for some people. But for most people it does not work, or it would be a conventional solution.

Footnote: Gramps sometimes ventures into unconventional territory. He bought a Good Morning Snore solution and could not tolerate it, even for naps. I tried it for a nap one time - badly uncomfortable - could not tolerate.

[PEF]

I wish I could sleep on my stomach, but I just can't get comfortable. But it does help a little to sleep on my side with the mask pressed into the pillow.

I have tried to use a chinstrap, but the same problem happened, it did not keep air from entering my mouth.

I just received a Liberty Hybrid, size small from Pugsy (thank heavens for her, so far I have purchased 2 masks that I cannot use). Unfortunately, I think it is too big, the pillows won't stay in my nose. I have not been able to get the mask to stay in place.

I also just bought a Airfit F10 for Her, size small, which I have been trying to fit. Basically, I think the mask fits as far as size is concerned. However, I tend to get a bit of a see/saw effect with any FFM on my face. My chin doesn't like to make a seal with the mask and the part over my nose is a bit snug. It is like it is slightly too small in the nose/cheeks area and slightly too big in the mouth and chin area because my face is not symmetrical up and down. So to get a decent seal under my lips, I have to tighten the bottom mask straps uncomfortably tight. Also, the slightest tug on the hose puts uncomfortable downward pressure on the mask over my sinuses. I figured out that if I swivel the elbow upwards and hang the hose from above the mask fits much better. Now I have to order a hose holder for that. Does anyone have any suggestions about which hose holder would hold the hose above my head well?

It seems like I just don't have the chin to hold and FFM in place.

Tonight, I am going to try to get to sleep with the F10, at least it stays on my face.

Thanks to everyone for the helpful suggestions!

[Gasper62]

Maybe you could try one of the silicone "Gecko" nose pads, but..........try it at the chin area. It might "shim out" the full face mask enough to lessen the pressure on your nose and afford you a decent seal. Just spitballin' here. Good luck !

[ChicagoGranny]

It seems like I just don't have the chin to hold and FFM in place.

I think you are way overemphasizing this, and it may be contributing to your inability to get the mask adjusted properly.

Recessed chins are nearly standard today in our population. Especially in the case of people with obstructive sleep apnea, recessed chins are very common.

So, many people with recessed chins use full face mask and get good CPAP therapy. Try taking a "can-do" attitude and work on getting the mask adjusted properly.

BTW, the AirFitF10 is not to be adjusted tightly at any point. It is designed to "float" on your face. Watch the manufacturer's videos for fitting and adjustment instructions - https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... dgear.html

[PEF]

ChicagoGranny, You are probably right that many people have recessed chins and still can fit FFM's. And I had wondered if I was fitting the mask correctly. I just watched the video and am doing a couple of things wrong, so I am going to try again. I will let you know how I do. I am also going to look up the video for the Liberty Hybrid and try to fit that one again. I really hope you are right!! I was beginning to lose hope.

[yaconsult]

Since you are happy with the P10, you might want to consider trying taping and see how that works for you. It's not uncomfortable and I do it every night after I caught myself blowing air out through my lips while half-asleep. It's important to use the correct kind of tape - 3M Micropore tape. This is what is used to hold bandages to skin. It is breathable.

You can experiment to see how much you need and how to apply it. Some people tape lengthwise across their entire mouths. Others use a piece of tape vertically in the middle to hold the top and bottom lips together. Just fold a quarter of an inch over at the end to leave a little handle to make it easy to remove. Also, note that you have to position it correctly when you first put it on as it won't stick a second time if you try to move it. There are a number of threads about taping available on this forum if you search for "tape" and "taping".

Walmart has two rolls available in the pharmacy section for about $5: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Nexcare-Gentl ... s/19898482 This is the retail store version of the 3M tape.

[PEF]

OK - ChicagoGranny - I just spent an hour trying to fit my F10. I watched the video several times to make sure I remembered everything. I am not set up to watch the video while I am fitting the mask. It took quite a bit of screwing around to try to figure out just how tight to pull the straps, but I made them as tight/loose as it looked like they were in the video. However, the mask does not fit me the way it fits the person in the video. On my face, the mask always feels a bit too snug in the nose and there is play below my lips, creating a bit of a see/saw effect. But it fits better than other FFm's I have tried.

Then I attached the mask to the hose (I had previously removed the elbow from the mask and attached it to my hose, just as the video showed in the beginning.) In the video, the person apparently did not have any problems when the hose dangled from the mask. I did have problems, the weight of the hose pulled my mask a little out of alignment. To stop this, I refitted the mask standing up and then laid down on the bed before attaching the hose. I then attached the hose and turned on the machine. The cushions inflated with slight wrinkling in the nose portion and quite a bit of leakage below my lips whenever I moved my head to either side. The mask feels a little too tight in the nose region and a little too lose below my lips. Of course, this the point where I try to adjust the straps more which never works, just makes the fit worse. I imagine I will need to use mask liners to stop bottom leaks. The mask simply does not sit quite right on my face. I suppose it is possible the mask is a little to small and I would do better with a medium - just don't know. I can't tolerate the downward pressure the hose puts on the mask because it bothers my sinuses. So I have an idea. The mask seems to fit much better when I swivel the elbow up and hang the hose above. So I will get a hose hanger and see if this can work.

I know a lot of people are freaked out when they first try FFM's so I am just going to try to get used to this.

Good news - I just got a note from Resmed. They sent me the name of a distributor here in Panama, but in Panama City which is 5 hours from where I live. I might make an appointment to see them and get masks fitted if I continue to have problems. It is getting expensive to guess at sizes.

[PEF]

Hi yaconsult. Thanks for the input. I really do like the nasal pillow masks and my longer term goal is to use them once I can train my brain to keep the therapy air out of my mouth. I know lots of people have successfully done this.

When I first started taping about 6 weeks ago, I thought I couldn't tolerate it. I was putting the tape on horizontally and using this horrible cloth tape. Then I decided to get serious. I found on the internet detailed instructions how to get yourself used to taping. There are a lot of people who tape each night to maximize their sleep benefit. I followed the instructions to begin taping during the day to get used to it for several days (I often caught myself mouth breathing especially during exercise). Once I got used to it, I started taping at night, but not with the CPAP, one thing at a time. So I used nasal dilators which I was already used to and had been wearing for years. Also, I used the blue painters tape and taped vertically, not covering my whole mouth. (I live in Panama, so cannot go to Walmart, but am going to see if I can order the tape you recommend from Amazon.) Surprisingly, in about a week, I was totally used to it. Now I tape every night. I have to say that stopping the mouth breathing got rid of a lot of my bad symptoms. But I do need CPAP because of the sleep breathing problem that causes stomach contents to end up in my throat.

I am happy to report that last night I felt confident enough to add my Swift FX nasal mask to the mix. Since I have such bad insomnia, I could not fall asleep at first with the mask, but I did not have any incidents of therapy air leaking into my mouth. I removed the mask for a short time to get to sleep, but when I woke up about 2 hours later, I put the mask back on. This must have been about 3am. Between about 4am and 6am is always when I go into REM sleep that causes all my sleep breathing problems. I slept until 6:30 and did not wake up with air in my mouth or a sore throat. So I thought that is a good start. I did have some air in my stomach, but that will go away with time.

So I hope to be able to get used to wearing both types of masks, full and nasal. It is slow getting used to, but I am very hopeful. I do get discouraged at times, but doing this is well worth the effort.

[PEF]

Just to clarify - and someone please correct me if I am wrong. I understand that taping does not necessarily prevent air from leaking into the mouth during CPAP therapy, it just prevents the air from coming out the mouth. I have learned from doing searches on the forum that to train yourself to stop leakage into the mouth, you need to create a seal with your tongue kept forward and on the roof of your mouth. And this jibes with what the breathing experts say - mouth breathers habitually have their tongues positioned at the bottom of their mouth. OK. My situation is complicated because my leakage comes from the lower left side of my jaw where I have 2 missing molars, creating a hole which I can plug, but only if my tongue stays in the correct position while I sleep. This is what I am working on. I have given up on the idea of the mouth/dental devise to hold my tongue forward - too uncomfortable. I think I can do it myself.

[yaconsult]

Amazon has a very good selection of Micropore tape, so you're good there. We are all unique and have to find what works best for us. The good thing is that you are willing to experiment - you're not a quitter!

I am still experimenting myself. The Micropore is great because it doesn't irritate the skin and sticks like the dickens the first time it is applied. Some people tape horizontally and cut a horizontal slit in the middle of the tape. Some people use multiple vertical strips. Find what works best for you. I am skeptical of training my tongue to stay in any particular position while I am sound asleep.

[Susie Kay]

I used tape for about two weeks. It was pretty barbaric and I also got what I was told are chipmunk cheeks. I switched to a FFM and everything is fine.

[Guest]

Yes, I get chipmunk cheeks too. It is really weird. I would also prefer to use a FFM and not have to worry about tape, etc., but I am not too optimistic about FFM´s fitting my face after 2 and maybe 3 failures. There is just something about the ones I have tried so far that just don´t fit the shape of my face. I am going to continue to try to make the F10 work, but now it looks like I will need to order mask liners and a hose hanger for that. On the other track, I am working on the nasal pillow masks and taping. I just wish I could get something working so I could sleep all night with a mask, so far I have not been able to accomplish this.

[ChicagoGranny]

Liberty Hybrid

This mask is similar to the Innomed Hybrid mask. I've used it for for years and my leak shows zero most nights and is very low the other nights.

The trick for me is adjusting it properly and using the "ladies tights fix". Here is a link where one of the members explains how he uses the mask - wiki/index.php/Hybrid_Mask_Modifications