Question: Using Non-Resmed Masks with Resmed Machines

Knightfall · Post by **Knightfall** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:34 pm

Going to my sleep doc tomorrow for my first appointment since being on CPAP for almost a month. One of the questions I was going to raise was would he be willing to write a scrip for a second mask (insurance won't buy another until January) for either:

1. the cold season, ie a full face mask
2. Another style mask than my nasal Activa (like the mask a lot, however daily use of it has caused a nice welt on the bridge of my nose)

Whether he's agreeable to this or not remains to be seen, and is not the point of this post. My question was more on the lines of if I decide to purchase a Non Resmed mask, how does one go about programming their Resmed machine to work with it?

Is it a scientific, wild a$$ guess, with the worse case scenario of having your leakage data being inaccurate, or does it go beyond this?

Thanks for any help offered, Ken

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:29 pm

Each mask has vent holes to allow co2 to be vented on expiration. The rate of fixed leak is a graph based on the mask model and the cms setting.

The Resmed masks all have varying fixed leak rates but are published on a pamphlet that comes with the mask & may also be on their web site.

All you have to do is buy a mask, find out its fixed leak rate (hopefully on a pamphlet with the mask - else from the vendor) compare its rate to the Resmed mask models listed in your cpap menu & choose one with the nearest matching fixed leak rate. A bit fiddly but the only way at the moment.

I have gathered all the data from a range of masks & still have to add it to my web site as a set of viewable tables. You may be the inspiration I need to get that data up on the web.

DSM

Knightfall · Post by **Knightfall** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:55 pm

DSM,

Your collection of fixed leakage data on various masks would be a valuable tool; thanks for your efforts in advance. So am I correct in the assumption that the only thing that the Resmed machines are using this "Mask" parameter for is nulling out the fixed leakage of a mask, so that when you read the "Leakage" value from your efficacy data, it's displaying only face to mask seal leakage? Ken

Maryb · Post by **Maryb** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:10 pm

Ken-
yes, your assumption is correct.

Maryb

Arizona Willie · Post by **Arizona Willie** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:17 pm

If your Activa mask is making your nose sore and / or leaving a mark --- you have it waaayyy too tight.

It should be adjusted so that you think it will fall off your face, before you turn the machine on.

It will grab onto your face like a Head Crab in the Half Life game.

The temptation to tighten the straps is almost irrisistable .. but try it. The mask should NOT leave a mark or make the bridge of your nose sore.

Bookbear · Post by **Bookbear** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:31 pm

Yes, DSM, please post your info....I have been unable to get a leak rate for each of the settings for the ResMed 'Mask' parameter, and I am not going to buy one of each of ResMed's masks to get the pamphlet for each one. ResMed refused to give me leak rates for their masks, told me that the "relevant data" for a mask was included with the purchase of the mask. They flatly refused to give the me the leak rates that the settings on the Vantage equated to.

Maryb · Post by **Maryb** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:39 pm

DSM-
I second that.
Do you have data for all the resmed masks to put in the table or are you missing some? I have the Swift data if you need it.
I'd love to see the ventflow data for all the Resmed masks so that I know that I am using the right setting for my hybrid.

Maryb

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:34 pm

Maryb wrote:DSM-
I second that.
Do you have data for all the resmed masks to put in the table or are you missing some? I have the Swift data if you need it.
I'd love to see the ventflow data for all the Resmed masks so that I know that I am using the right setting for my hybrid.

Maryb

Maryb,
Of all the Resmed masks, the Ultra Mirage Full Face has the highest vent flow rate. When I compare the Hybrid's passive exhalation leak rate (basically the vent flow rate) to that of the Ultra Mirage FF mask, the Hybrid consistently has ~ 15% higher leak rate than the UMFF at almost all pressures (4-20 cm). So, it is safe to say that the best setting for the Hybrid is the Full Face setting on the Resmed S8 Vantage EPR Autoset.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:52 pm

Bookbear wrote:I have been unable to get a leak rate for each of the settings for the ResMed 'Mask' parameter, and I am not going to buy one of each of ResMed's masks to get the pamphlet for each one. ResMed refused to give me leak rates for their masks, told me that the "relevant data" for a mask was included with the purchase of the mask. They flatly refused to give the me the leak rates that the settings on the Vantage equated to.

So...they want you to buy their masks in order to find out some basic info about the masks, huh.

I guess you're lucky they didn't throw in a lecture about how you should go to bricks-and-mortar DMEs, for "best" support and followup.

It will be a cold day when I ever purchase another ResMed product.

Besides, it's nice to be using autopaps that don't make me jump through hoops with "mask settings" when I rotate between several masks, sometimes switching to a different mask on the same night.

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:00 pm

I figured after Resmed get their new Internet pricing in place I'd get a new one of each off the internet, seeing how the cost more and have to be better. NOT! Jim

Sorry Resmed, you don't have to keep my address in your computer, you won't be making any deliveries to my house.

Knightfall · Post by **Knightfall** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:16 pm

rested gal wrote:
Besides, it's nice to be using autopaps that don't make me jump through hoops with "mask settings" when I rotate between several masks, sometimes switching to a different mask on the same night.

Rested Gal, glad you joined the conversation. I'm new to the CPAP/APAP game, and wanted to hear from the Respironics side of the argument also. I'm in a rent to own agreement with my S8 Elite; as far as the machine goes, I've been relatively happy. But I am looking for as much input as possible for future decisions as to which path I'm going to follow.

What do you need to do as far as configuration when changing from one mask to another with a Respironics machine (from your above comment, sounds like nothing)? How do the Respironics machines factor out the fixed leakage of a given mask? Do you get leakage as data from a Respironics machine?

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:24 am

Knightfall wrote:What do you need to do as far as configuration when changing from one mask to another with a Respironics machine (from your above comment, sounds like nothing)?

You're exactly right, Knightfall...you don't have to change anything about the Respironics machines (or any of the other brands of machines, except ResMed) when you use different masks.

Knightfall wrote:How do the Respironics machines factor out the fixed leakage of a given mask? Do you get leakage as data from a Respironics machine?

I don't know how the machines that don't ask about "mask" handle the leak info. As far as I know, ResMed is the only one that makes you put in what mask is being used. The other brands don't require that. I've used all three major brands of autopaps. All treated me very well, so whatever Respironics and Puritan Bennett do to account for "mask leak" in general seems to work fine.

Yes, the Respironics M Autopap displays leak rate in the LCD display. And if you use the Encore Pro software with either Respironics autopap (the bigger one, or the smaller M) the software's leak graph clearly shows the leak rate continuously through the night. It also states the average leak for the night, and information about the amount of time spent in "Large Leak" if that should happen.

Here's a link to an Encore Pro PDF file of single night when I changed masks three times -- Oracle for 20 minutes, Swift for half an hour, then my trusty Aura for the remainder of the night. Machine was the Respironics REMstar Auto with C-flex:
Oracle-Swift-Aura
I didn't start out that night expecting to switch masks. I'd hate to have had to put in a new mask setting each time! I was getting frustrated enough with the first two masks that I probably would have punched the button a little too hard.

I strongly believe that anyone who wants to monitor their own treatment at home should get an autopap and the software. The data downloaded from the autopap can be very useful in helping you (or you and your doctor together) make tweaks to your treatment and see for yourself how its going. If you find that a single straight pressure works best for you, the autopap can be used in cpap mode.

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:29 am

rested gal wrote:
Knightfall wrote:What do you need to do as far as configuration when changing from one mask to another with a Respironics machine (from your above comment, sounds like nothing)?
You're exactly right, Knightfall...you don't have to change anything about the Respironics machines (or any of the other brands of machines, except ResMed) when you use different masks.

RG,
You are usually so right - but PB330 is another machine that asks for leak rate setting (choose 1 - 6 based on a table in the PB330 clinical manual). But as you already know, later PB machines now calculate the leakage dynamically.

I do agree that it sounds despicable that any company would refuse to provide otherwise public information about their products. I would be interested in the details of this as I can promise I will follow through to the orgaanisation concerned.

DSM

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:22 am

Done it!

The link to the main website is here & the menu lists the Leak Rates

http://www.internetage.com/cpapinfo/

There really isn't a lot of data on the chart yet & I may break it into 2 charts
(is far too wide). Pls suggest a better way to list these #s - I was thinking that 8.0 to 16.0 on 1 chart & the current chart can be a 2nd option for anyone wanting data outside that range

I could do 1 half (6 to 13) at the top of the page & the other half (13 to 20)
at the bottom.

If anyone has any corrections or any new data please post it here & now that I have the page up, will add it quickly.

Many thanks to those who put the effort in before (all acknowledged)

DSM

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:55 am

dsm, wow...you've done beautiful work on your website!

You may have already filled in these things on your "mask leak rates" page:

Puritan Bennett: name:Breeze type:Nasal Pillows

F&P Infinity HC481:
That mask's type is Nasal Prongs (prongs are different from pillows)

ComfortCurve type is: Nasal

F&P Flexifit HC431 is a FF mask

Innomed's Hybrid is hard to put in a single type category.
I guess I'd call it: FF /w nasal pillows

If you need data from them, scanned pressure/flow charts for several masks are at:
http://www.tnlc.com/Lara/laura/osa/Mask ... sure-flow/

Your mask leak page will be a very helpful resource for people who are using other brands of masks with a ResMed machine. Good job!

Question: Using Non-Resmed Masks with Resmed Machines

Question: Using Non-Resmed Masks with Resmed Machines

Comparative Table? Excellent!

Activa mask mark

Resmed mask data

Re: Resmed mask data

Machine	Mask

Additional Comments: Avg. AHI .4