Partially off topic: electricty and power surges

[SleepDisturbed]

What kind of laptop?

[zoocrewphoto]

What kind of laptop?

Acer Aspire 7540

I bought it used last August. It happened rarely in the beginning, but it was mostly dry in the summer, so that could have been why. I'm going to try another outlet later tonight to see if happens with more outlets. I will probably order a new battery soon too.

It could be something with the computer, but it would have to be combined with the power at the house since it doesn't happen anywhere else. The computer has been great since I got it. This has been the only issue, and most days, it only happens once. Not a big deal. My last laptop was great for about 5 years, but probably has a motherboard issue from what I found online. It works great, but if you turn it off, it may take hours or days before it turns on again. Not great since I need it when I travel. So, I had to get another laptop.

[amenite]

Likely Palerider is correct that the power bricks are not quite right. Power Supplies in any computer tend to go bad after two years or so, capacitors get old.
...

I can't disagree more about the life span of power supplies. I have an original OEM power supply in a computer that was recently retired that was operating for approximately 10 years, basically 24/7 and a spent a good deal of that time connected directly to an outlet and it wasn't retired due any power supply problem. Original power supply. Similarly the power brick I'm using right now to help me type this message is easily 5 years old and would be more like 7 or 8 years old if the cat hadn't chewed the original all to heck.

I do agree however that the OP's power bricks are suspect.

[GeoffD]

I think people are getting the diagnosis wrong. This has nothing to do with the power brick or the quality of power in the house. It's a humidity problem.

Any laptop I've ever owned runs in a low power mode when it's running on battery. The machine runs hotter when it's plugged in than when it's running on battery. All the copper etches on the printed circuit board expand when they get hot. My guess is that there is probably a marginal solder point somewhere that causes a failure when it's humid and the printed circuit board heats up. When you travel, you're likely in hotels and office buildings that are air conditioned and never have high humidity.

My sister lives in Vancouver, BC and nobody has A/C since it rarely gets hot enough to need it. I imagine the same is true in Seattle. If you want to test this theory, borrow a dehumidifier, keep the door shut in the room with your laptop, and see if the problem goes away. With a 5 year old laptop, I'd be shopping for a replacement.

[zoocrewphoto]

I think people are getting the diagnosis wrong. This has nothing to do with the power brick or the quality of power in the house. It's a humidity problem.

Any laptop I've ever owned runs in a low power mode when it's running on battery. The machine runs hotter when it's plugged in than when it's running on battery. All the copper etches on the printed circuit board expand when they get hot. My guess is that there is probably a marginal solder point somewhere that causes a failure when it's humid and the printed circuit board heats up. When you travel, you're likely in hotels and office buildings that are air conditioned and never have high humidity.

My sister lives in Vancouver, BC and nobody has A/C since it rarely gets hot enough to need it. I imagine the same is true in Seattle. If you want to test this theory, borrow a dehumidifier, keep the door shut in the room with your laptop, and see if the problem goes away. With a 5 year old laptop, I'd be shopping for a replacement.

Interesting theory. Most of the places I go when I travel are hotels and show halls, so may not be humid. Not sure about the RV I stay in sometimes, but it is closer to Portland than Seattle, so it may be dryer there. Not sure.

I do have a dehumidifier, so I will dig it out. I'm not sure how old this laptop is. I bought it used last August. My previous laptop is the one that is definitely at least 5 years. According the Belarc, the operating system (windows 7) was installed December of 2013. And it has a Blueray player, so it seemed reasonably new when I got it.

[palerider]

Likely Palerider is correct that the power bricks are not quite right. Power Supplies in any computer tend to go bad after two years or so, capacitors get old.
...

I can't disagree more about the life span of power supplies. ...
I do agree however that the OP's power bricks are suspect.

there were a large batch of crap capacitors that were produced some years ago, the fallout affected just about everything electronic, tv's, computers, power supplies, .... very widespread. and capacitors tend to be a weak point, especially if they're underspec'd.

but a couple years? yeah, I agree with you on that point.

also, caps aren't really used in surge protectors... there are some things in there that LOOK like caps, but they're MOVs... wholly different beast.

[SleepDisturbed]

Very puzzling.

Charging circuit? Or battery?

Only getting an hour or so on the battery makes me suspicious of one or the other.

Could be the battery. It is certainly old enough to need replacement. Still doesn't explain your "only at my house" symptom though.

[AlabamaAl]

I suspect this is a combination of problems that have come together to form a perfect storm. Induction from the high voltage power lines, humidity, aging electronics, heat etc. Impossible to tell without hands on troubleshooting, and difficullt even with hands on. If you have access to another laptop, use it during the stormy weather, and see if it has the same problem, if it does not, then it is time to replace the laptop... and/or just use it on the road. If the borrowed laptop has the same problem, then there is a problem with the power than needs to be addressed.

If you are in an area where lightning, and voltage spikes are a problem, a whole house surge protector might be a wise investment. These are installed in the main breaker panel, and provide protection for all of your electronics and appliances. They should be installed by a licensed electrictian, or at least someone who knows their way around a breaker panel. Consder it a relativly cheap insurance policy for your whole home.

Here is an example of what I am reffering to:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-Whole- ... c=17588969

[westom]

The problem happens with both at home, and with neither one when traveling.

First, let's undo some myths. The laptop switches between AC power or battery. It does not run constantly on battery for many technical reasons. Apparently that laptop has a problem with the switchover circuit. Since loss of AC power means the computer should switch to battery flawlessly.

Second, surges do not cause shutdowns or crashes. If you suffered a surge, then the computer is damaged. Appreciate that the computer connects directly to AC mains even with a power bar protector. Most who recommend that ineffective device do not even know how it works. An adjacent protector sometimes can compromise protection routinely found in all appliances - including CPAP.

Surges are rare - maybe once every seven years. Facilities that cannot have damage use something completely different - also called a surge protector. These proven devices for homes cost about $1 per protected appliance. Must be where AC wires enter the building. And this is most important. Must ben within feet of single point earth ground. Because no protector does protection. Protection is done by the earth ground.

Back to the laptop. Nothing on AC mains should cause the computer to crash. If voltage from AC mains drops too low, the computer should automatically switch to batteries - without any indication other than a icon change.

[GeoffD]

I think people are getting the diagnosis wrong. This has nothing to do with the power brick or the quality of power in the house. It's a humidity problem.

Any laptop I've ever owned runs in a low power mode when it's running on battery. The machine runs hotter when it's plugged in than when it's running on battery. All the copper etches on the printed circuit board expand when they get hot. My guess is that there is probably a marginal solder point somewhere that causes a failure when it's humid and the printed circuit board heats up. When you travel, you're likely in hotels and office buildings that are air conditioned and never have high humidity.

My sister lives in Vancouver, BC and nobody has A/C since it rarely gets hot enough to need it. I imagine the same is true in Seattle. If you want to test this theory, borrow a dehumidifier, keep the door shut in the room with your laptop, and see if the problem goes away. With a 5 year old laptop, I'd be shopping for a replacement.

Interesting theory. Most of the places I go when I travel are hotels and show halls, so may not be humid. Not sure about the RV I stay in sometimes, but it is closer to Portland than Seattle, so it may be dryer there. Not sure.

I do have a dehumidifier, so I will dig it out. I'm not sure how old this laptop is. I bought it used last August. My previous laptop is the one that is definitely at least 5 years. According the Belarc, the operating system (windows 7) was installed December of 2013. And it has a Blueray player, so it seemed reasonably new when I got it.

When I Googled the model number, it looked like it was a 2010 machine from the dates on the review articles.

In a hotel, trade show hall, or probably an RV, you're not leaving the machine plugged in for days on end. If it's the problem I think it is, you have to let the laptop heat up completely while on AC power where it runs in "full power mode" instead of "low power mode" to heat up the internals enough to have the expansion problem that causes the failure at a weak solder point. Humidity might be a red herring.

An experienced tech with a microscope might be able to luck out and find a bad solder point from a visual inspection. It's more likely that it's underneath a ball grid array part. If the machine died completely, you could try a hot air gun or baking in the oven for a few minutes to get the solder to re-flow. Solder melts at about 425F. That's what the techs do when a board is dead in my lab when all else fails. That's typically on a prototype run where we're trying to salvage a dead board. It doesn't work all that often. I wouldn't try that on a working machine with an intermittent problem.

[archangle]

I'll agree with Westom. It's unlikely a power surge is causing a crash. Possible, but unlikely. Also unlikely that a surge suppressor will help.

I wonder if the laptop may be overheating. Do you use it in the lap when you're at home or otherwise change such that you might be blocking airflow? You might want to look at the air vents for dust and blow it out with canned air.

As an experiment, try checking your laptop power settings and setting the machine to run with the same power settings on power as it uses on battery. Control panel-hardware and sound-power options. Or simply set it on the minimum power usage settings and see if that changes. It may heat up more on AC than on battery.

Does it usually fail after it's been running for a while, or does it sometimes crash shortly after you turn it on?

There's probably a utility you can find that will tell you the temperature of your processor. A quick check shows that "speedfan" may be a good utility to do this. Be careful for malware or bogus download links with anything you download.

New power bricks are ridiculously cheap these days. You might consider buying a new one of some other brand and seeing if the problem goes away.

[zoocrewphoto]

I'll agree with Westom. It's unlikely a power surge is causing a crash. Possible, but unlikely. Also unlikely that a surge suppressor will help.

I wonder if the laptop may be overheating. Do you use it in the lap when you're at home or otherwise change such that you might be blocking airflow? You might want to look at the air vents for dust and blow it out with canned air.

As an experiment, try checking your laptop power settings and setting the machine to run with the same power settings on power as it uses on battery. Control panel-hardware and sound-power options. Or simply set it on the minimum power usage settings and see if that changes. It may heat up more on AC than on battery.

Does it usually fail after it's been running for a while, or does it sometimes crash shortly after you turn it on?

There's probably a utility you can find that will tell you the temperature of your processor. A quick check shows that "speedfan" may be a good utility to do this. Be careful for malware or bogus download links with anything you download.

New power bricks are ridiculously cheap these days. You might consider buying a new one of some other brand and seeing if the problem goes away.

Temp may be an issue. I will get one of those cooler things and see if that helps. I do tend to run it all the time and just leave it on. Same thing when I travel, though it does have a few breaks as I move from hotel room to show hall, and back. At home, the laptop sits on the slide-out drawer that is normally for a keyboard. It stays closed, with a full sized keyboard on top of it. I use a full size keyboard and monitor at home and keep the laptop closed. So, that is another thing that is different between home and travel. I don't like to use the laptop keyboard unless I have to. So, I may be causing it to overheat the way I use it. I did the same with the last laptop though, and I never had a problem with it.

When I use battery, I have it set to use the regular screen display, etc as I work with photos and need the full display. I really don't run off the battery much as I have power at the show hall, hotels, etc. I rarely use it in the car. I can check email on my ipod touch.

I am going to use the dehumidifier and get a cooler stand thing for it and see if that helps. I am hoping to get another laptop sometime soon, but I have some other expenses coming up in July, and I need new tires too. So, it may have to wait. Other than this problem, I really do like this laptop. It is 17", blue ray player, decent RAM and hard drive. It is an upgrade from my old laptop, and only cost me $160. Back when my old laptop started dying, I looked at the back to school ads, and most of the cheaper laptops don't have a CD drive. I do photos at cat shows, so part of my service is to burn a CD for the customer. So, I had to look for a used laptop to get the minimum specs I needed.

[westom]

Temp may be an issue. I will get one of those cooler things and see if that helps. I do tend to run it all the time and just leave it on. Same thing when I travel, though it does have a few breaks as I move from hotel room to show hall, and back.

Temperature differences between battery and AC power are minor. Much larger temperature differences exist when running on battery in a 70 degree room and running on battery in a 90+ degree room. Ideal temperatures for any computer include both 70 and 100 degrees. Temperature is not a reason for failure. Temperature is a diagnostic to find defective semiconductors. Any computer that works fine in 70 degrees and fails in 100 degrees is defective. And will probably get worse over the months to also fail in 70 degrees.

Put it in the warmest room possible. Does it still fail when it should switch flawlessly from AC to battery? And does it always work in a 100 degree F room? Both are diagnostics to identify (characterize) a defect.

Laptop must switch from AC to battery to AC repeatedly without any indication (other than its power Icon).

[JohnO]

At home, the laptop sits on the slide-out drawer that is normally for a keyboard. It stays closed, with a full sized keyboard on top of it. I use a full size keyboard and monitor at home and keep the laptop closed.

This could be key. Many laptops use the area around the keyboard keys to exhaust airflow. With the lid shut, the airflow might be restricted.

Also - as mentioned above -- the airflow cloud be restricted by the vents and fans getting dirty, pet hair, etc. If you can get a can of compressed air and blow it out, that might help. Depending on the computer, it might not be too difficult to pull off the bottom cover to make it easier to blow it out.

[palerider]

Also - as mentioned above -- the airflow cloud be restricted by the vents and fans getting dirty, pet hair, etc. If you can get a can of compressed air and blow it out, that might help. Depending on the computer, it might not be too difficult to pull off the bottom cover to make it easier to blow it out.

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