Really good Zeo score?

[Nooblakahn]

My first night with Zeo turned up with this:



I'm sure as heck not complaining here... I'm just a little confused. Are these things really as accurate as they claim to be? This seems to be in direct conflict with all of my sleep study reports.

Thing is though, I do feel really good this morning... which is not typical, and I made a mental note of this before I ever looked at the screen. Could it be just lucky that I got a good nights sleep with my complex apnea pre machine? Or does this device not update frequently enough to catch my breathing pulling me out of rem or deep sleep?

[Jay Aitchsee]

Noob, there have been countless discussions here about the accuracy of Zeo. Nobody, not even Zeo, claims it to be as accurate as a PSG. However, many of us have found it to be an effective tool for assessing the quality of our sleep, not by relying absolutely on the score, but on how the night looks (how many awakenings, how much deep, etc). Those things, along with the score can be used to objectively assess your sleep, but, it is more of a baseline from which to measure trends - Is deep increasing or decreasing, for example. Since your Zeo report looks real good and you feel good, this report would seem to be a good baseline report for you.

Jay

[quietmorning]

I've seen how high the 'score' can go with some people - so getting an 84 is not like getting 84 out of 100 . . .it means that you were able to accumulate so many points that can go well over 100. You were able to gain 84 sleep points - and that's about as much as it means.

If I sleep an hour longer in the morning, my sleep score will jump 10 points - that doesn't mean I slept well. . .it means I slept longer.

Though I must say, you got a lot more deep and sleep . . .and if you woke up, it was so brief the machine couldn't put it on the grid. (though it may have been counted in the pie) Your grid looks like you had a good night - depending on how old you are and your sex.

Ah saw the actuals - no wakes . . . wow.

Deep sleep 48 minutes - that could be wonderful if you're a woman in your late 40's. . .not so good if you're a young man in his twenties.

Does zeo still provide the cardboard wheel chart to allow you to compare how you slept with people your age and sex? If not, you can compare it on the weekly report from zeo's sleep coach.

[Nooblakahn]

Yeah, I know this is no replacement for a PSG, and I'm definitely going forward with my treatment once that's all settled. I was just more surprised as i didn't expect that much deep sleep, and definitely not that much rem. Again I feel better this morning than I usually do, looks like I just got lucky and had a good night on my first use.

My zeo did come with the cardboard wheel, not sure if newer ones do or not, I got the non plus mobile off of a third party seller off of amazon. It shows an average score for someone in their 30's (31 here) to be 80, so I will gladly take it. And thanks for pointing it out, I thought it was out of a 100 but the card board wheel does show scores up to 120... so you can score at least that high. Neat little device, the mobile app works good too.

[Jay Aitchsee]

Just one more thing on Zeo score: Higher isn't necessarily better.
As QM points out, so many points are allotted just for sleeping, 8.5 per hour, IIRC. Extra points are alloted for REM and Deep, and points are subtracted for wakenings. So, a person could sleep for 10 hours devoid of REM and Deep and Score 85 or so, which is a pretty good score, but it would actually be crummy sleep. I would be suspect of a score in the high 80's or more. It could mean you are sleeping too long.

[quietmorning]

I try to keep my hours of sleep the same every night - Monday through Monday with only an additional half an hour here or there if I'm very fatigued at at the same time every night with wake up the same time. Not only does it keep your circadian rhythm in sync, but it will give you a truer value of your score sheet - as the amount of sleep tends to weigh so heavily. If you consistently get 8 to 8.5 hours every night, then you can see the how well you sleep much better.

[cosmo]

.

[Sleepy Pilot]

Hey crew,

I use an app on my phone, called Sleep Cycle, to track my sleep. I was interested in the Zeo just as more biofeedback on my sleep. Does this thing really work for at-home psuedo-partial PSG, (combined with an S9, SleepyHead and oximetry)?



Is it worth the money. Is the feedback worth the money?

[Nooblakahn]

I've only used it one night... The report said I got good sleep. I actually awoke feeling rested (before I looked at the screen, so no placebo effect) so this report feels right. At the price I got the mobile version for ($50) with shipping I think its worth it. Now if you had to pay 150 or up for the bedside version due to not having a smartphone or tablet... would seem to high to me.

[quietmorning]

Hey crew,

I use an app on my phone, called Sleep Cycle, to track my sleep. I was interested in the Zeo just as more biofeedback on my sleep. Does this thing really work for at-home psuedo-partial PSG, (combined with an S9, SleepyHead and oximetry)?



Is it worth the money. Is the feedback worth the money?

The difference between the PSG and the Zeo is the amount of information it can gather. The PSG can take one second snap shots of the brain waves. Zeo takes thirty second and graphs those thirty second snap shots in five minute blocks - so it misses events that happens in seconds - (I try with all my might to go into deep sleep by the second - as showed on my original sleep study - but on the zeo this records as ZERO.)

So it isn't a medical device as it just doesn't have the precision - BUT it's a great tool to work out sleep issues and to guide into sleeping better - as everyone is different. When you compare your Zeo information with the xPAP info and the oximetry info, then you have more information than you did to work out kinks. . . to compare changes made - to have information to take to your doctore, etc. But it is not medically precise and will never be.

It's the only one, that I'm aware of that actually takes the brain wave - others go by the heart rate and body movement, if I understand correctly. That would never work for me.

[quietmorning]

I've only used it one night... The report said I got good sleep. I actually awoke feeling rested (before I looked at the screen, so no placebo effect) so this report feels right. At the price I got the mobile version for ($50) with shipping I think its worth it. Now if you had to pay 150 or up for the bedside version due to not having a smartphone or tablet... would seem to high to me.

I think it just depends on how you use it. I love my bedside. I bought my bedside before the mobile versions came out. I'd be tempted to buy the mobile version if I were going off on a trip, but the mobile app is too heavy and takes up a lot of battery on my phone. (I tested this just to see.) The bedside version doesn't.

I have to mention with my statement about the number of hours slept . . .last night was exhausted and COULD NOT GET OUT OF BED THIS MORNING. . .so I slept from 10:20pm until 7:30am - 9+ hours. My sleep score was actually pretty low - only 73 . . .but I had a BAD night . . .lol. . .like most of my nights.



I'll be so glad when we get this bed issue straightened around.

[Nooblakahn]

Ugh, that is alot of awake time. Hope you do get it sorted out. Here's mine from last night.. it is a pretty neat device, and I agree with what everyone is saying here, the z score is kinda useless. Its nice to see the time to sleep.. when it works (I know for a fact i was awake during those first two bars of rem sleep here) I'll keep with it, and I agree, the other things I've seen that use movement.. seem like they would only be useful if there was no one else in your bed with the measuring of movements.



Also, has anyone found it more effective on a different location of their forehead? I have mine kind of high up, just below my hairline... Couldn't find anything stating where on your forehead it should be... except it should be on your forehead. Not sure if it matters, just looking for insight from you folks that have used this longer than i have.

Oh, and queitmorning, I had to laugh at your signature, clever that one

[2flamingos]

I'm so jealous! I NEVER get that much REM or DEEP Sleep, NEVER! During my initial study, I got ZERO of either. During titration I got some of both, but no where near as much as I should be getting. Similarly, when I recently was re-tested with my machine - I got some, but not as much as I should.

My average Zeo score seems to be in the 60's-low 70's. It not the awakenings lowering the score - some nights its only two or three, and rarely for long.

[tetragon]

The difference between the PSG and the Zeo is the amount of information it can gather. The PSG can take one second snap shots of the brain waves. Zeo takes thirty second and graphs those thirty second snap shots in five minute blocks - so it misses events that happens in seconds - (I try with all my might to go into deep sleep by the second - as showed on my original sleep study - but on the zeo this records as ZERO.)

While it is true that full sleep studies do acquire more information, they don't take "one second snap shots of the brain waves"; the sampling frequency is much higher than that. The Zeo also samples as a higher rate than once every thirty seconds. It's just that overall sleep stage is determined in thirty second chunks of what is seen, by both of them. It is possible to see higher-resolution Zeo data, especially if you have the bedside version, and PSGs make use of much more data, from more sources.

[Nooblakahn]

I'm so jealous! I NEVER get that much REM or DEEP Sleep, NEVER! During my initial study, I got ZERO of either. During titration I got some of both, but no where near as much as I should be getting. Similarly, when I recently was re-tested with my machine - I got some, but not as much as I should.

My average Zeo score seems to be in the 60's-low 70's. It not the awakenings lowering the score - some nights its only two or three, and rarely for long.

I don't think mine is reading right. I was impressed with the first night, and it seemed it could have been accurate based on how I felt. The second night was lower... which felt right. But I scored something like 100 last night, and was asleep in 2 minutes. I know I was awake longer than 2 minutes. I was conscious of being awake 3 or 4 times last night as well, and none of those were scored. Not sure what is going on here...