Battery backup 101

[kaiasgram]

Bear with me, I'm really confused about the battery backup option. (Can't go with a generator because of my upstairs apartment situation I can't locate a generator outside.)

If I buy the DC Converter 24V/90W For S9™ Machines, then I need to buy a battery, and at my pressure setting (8.2) I would need battery size 25 (amp hours?) according to the ResMed guide. So far so good? Can someone recommend a good brand of battery? And what the heck do you do with it most of the time if you just want it available in case of a power outage? How do you store it, and how do you keep it maintained and ready to use? Pardon my ignorance about all this, and thanks for your help.

[archangle]

There are many threads on this, but this combination will work OK.

Get a deep cycle (not starting, not starting/deep cycle, not dual purpose) marine battery about the size of a car battery. (80-100 Amp Hour). $80 or so.

Put it in a marine battery box. $10 or so.

Sit it somewhere it won't get kicked over or spill.

If you can't put it somewhere that you're sure it won't spill, get an AGM battery that isn't spillable. They cost more, but aren't that much better other than that.

Get a Schumacher se-1-12S ($30 or so) charger and keep it hooked up to the battery all the time. Some other chargers will eventually eat the battery if you leave them hooked up full time, and I've used these for years with no problems.

Check the water every few months. Check the battery charge level once a year or so if you can figure out how to.

Plan on buying a new battery at least once every 5 years.

[kaiasgram]

There are many threads on this, but this combination will work OK.

Get a deep cycle (not starting, not starting/deep cycle, not dual purpose) marine battery about the size of a car battery. (80-100 Amp Hour). $80 or so.

Put it in a marine battery box. $10 or so.

Sit it somewhere it won't get kicked over or spill.

If you can't put it somewhere that you're sure it won't spill, get an AGM battery that isn't spillable. They cost more, but aren't that much better other than that.

Get a Schumacher se-1-12S ($30 or so) charger and keep it hooked up to the battery all the time. Some other chargers will eventually eat the battery if you leave them hooked up full time, and I've used these for years with no problems.

Check the water every few months. Check the battery charge level once a year or so if you can figure out how to.

Plan on buying a new battery at least once every 5 years.

This is exactly what I needed, archangle, a step by step straightforward tutorial -- thanks very much, I know there are many threads about this but they tend to get fairly technical and complex, and your explanation here will help a lot of overwhelmed newbies like me. The charger, I assume, stays plugged in to a regular wall socket all the time so the battery is always at the ready -- tell me if I'm off base on this, please!

I'm also wondering -- I have a Health Savings Account -- I wonder if a battery, charger, etc., for my CPAP would be a legitimate expense to pay out of my HSA. If anyone knows, please chime in! Thanks again for your help.

[archangle]

This is exactly what I needed, archangle, a step by step straightforward tutorial -- thanks very much, I know there are many threads about this but they tend to get fairly technical and complex, and your explanation here will help a lot of overwhelmed newbies like me. The charger, I assume, stays plugged in to a regular wall socket all the time so the battery is always at the ready -- tell me if I'm off base on this, please!

I'm also wondering -- I have a Health Savings Account -- I wonder if a battery, charger, etc., for my CPAP would be a legitimate expense to pay out of my HSA. If anyone knows, please chime in! Thanks again for your help.

Does someone approve your HSA spending? "Insurance" of any form usually doesn't pay for CPAP batteries of any kind.

[OregonTrail]

Another option is to use a setup like this:s http://www.amazon.com/PowerStation-Hi-C ... B005CL1OPCwith this https://www.cpap.com/productpage/DC-Con ... hines.html You can leave it plugged in all the time, and then when the power goes off you just plug in the Resmed 12 volt cable into the cigarette lighter port on the Powerstation and you are good to go. I even use this configuration when I went camping last month and it worked great! I don’t see why it wouldn’t work just as well as a battery backup. Powerstation at Costco is $68 and I’ve seen the Resmed 12 volt cable from anywhere between $75-85

[kaiasgram]

Does someone approve your HSA spending? "Insurance" of any form usually doesn't pay for CPAP batteries of any kind.

Basically the government dictates what qualifies as a legitimate HSA expense and what does not, regardless of what insurance you have. I suspect the battery does not qualify, though it should -- I'll find out.

Is the reason you didn't recommend the ResMed lithium ion battery kit because of the price? The description says it can run the S9 with humidifier for up to 13 hours, but one reviewer claimed it can only do about two hours with the humidifier. Just curious. It's incredibly pricey.

[archangle]

Another option is to use a setup like this:s http://www.amazon.com/PowerStation-Hi-C ... B005CL1OPC

How many nights did you get with this unit? That is only 18 Ah, so it won't last as many nights in a row. Did you use the AC or DC adapter?

I'd be concerned about long term battery life if you leave that plugged in all the time. Even if it's "OK" according to the manufacturer, lots of stuff like that will eat the battery over a period of a year or so if left plugged into the charger. One way to extend the life is to use an automatic weekly electrical timer to only charge it something like one night a week.

That does have the advantage of not needing the DC adapter, as long as you get enough hours and lifetime out of it.

[archangle]

Basically the government dictates what qualifies as a legitimate HSA expense and what does not, regardless of what insurance you have. I suspect the battery does not qualify, though it should -- I'll find out.

Is the reason you didn't recommend the ResMed lithium ion battery kit because of the price? The description says it can run the S9 with humidifier for up to 13 hours, but one reviewer claimed it can only do about two hours with the humidifier. Just curious. It's incredibly pricey.

-- Lithium

I'm suspicious of lithium batteries in general. The biggest problem for me is that they tend to suddenly die on you without warning. This is especially true if you let them sit for long periods of time without using them. You have a power outage, you need it, and you find it's dead. Not just discharged, doesn't put out any power and can't be charged. This can also happen without warning even if you DO "treat it right." Many people with laptop computers have experienced this problem.

If it's your emergency power solution, you want it to sit in the corner, ignored most of the time, but be something you can count on when you need it. I'd be worried about whether a lithium battery pack would work in a year or two when you have your first major power outage. Cost is obviously a consideration, too.

By the way, NEVER tinker with the insides or use anything but the manufacturer's charging circuit on a lithium battery. They actually will burst into flames if you charge them wrong or abuse them. Also, if you ever do have one burst into flames, the fumes may be toxic. I'm a little afraid of lithium batteries.

It's possible whatever lithium ion battery kit you choose will work fine. They may have improved the batteries or the design of the circuitry.

---

There are many solutions that will work, with various drawbacks. There is no clear best choice.

The one I posted is big, dumb, heavy, relatively cheap, easily done, long lived, and gives you a lot of hours of run time. I have used essentially that same system for many years for some non-CPAP stuff, and it works well for me.

If you want light weight, compact size, only need one night, etc., a different solution may be better for you.

[kaiasgram]

They actually will burst into flames if you charge them wrong or abuse them. Also, if you ever do have one burst into flames, the fumes may be toxic. I'm a little afraid of lithium batteries.

Uh, that's OK I'll go with your original plan -- I'm not too interested in bursting into flames right now, and as for toxic fumes, I think we get enough of those blown down our throats from all the plastics in our machines, hoses and masks. Glad to hear your input on this, and it was really too pricey for me anyway. Really nice of you to take the time to explain it all, thanks again.

[archangle]

They actually will burst into flames if you charge them wrong or abuse them. Also, if you ever do have one burst into flames, the fumes may be toxic. I'm a little afraid of lithium batteries.

Uh, that's OK I'll go with your original plan -- I'm not too interested in bursting into flames right now, and as for toxic fumes, I think we get enough of those blown down our throats from all the plastics in our machines, hoses and masks. Glad to hear your input on this, and it was really too pricey for me anyway. Really nice of you to take the time to explain it all, thanks again.

Well, the "burst into flames" scenario is pretty unlikely unless you open up the lithium battery pack and tinker with the guts or make your own charger.

Since many of us here have already decided to proceed despite the advice that "tinkering with your CPAP will kill you," I feel obliged to warn that the warning not to "abuse" lithium batteries is not just scare tactics.

[123.Shawn T.W.]

Here is a small deep cycle battery, I'd see if you could find it locally, so you would not have to pay shipping ... http://www.solar-electric.com/sunxtenagmse.html

[GumbyCT]

How many nights did you get with this unit? That is only 18 Ah, so it won't last as many nights in a row. Did you use the AC or DC adapter?

aa knows I have been using a jump starter w/22 ah battery for well over a year now with no troubles at all - leaving it plugged in day & nite during this time. No maintenance - NO Water - just Plug n Play. It works just like a UPS this way.

I think an 18ah battery will get you thru the nite @8cm. fwiw - My pressures are 18/15.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79261&p=721021&hili ... n+#p721044

This is from the beginning...
Another Battery Option by GumbyCT on Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:44 pm
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=64943&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... ery+option

In fact, the B&D Jump Starter could easily be used in the JBF Battery Backup Design -
viewtopic.php?t=49115

This link will take you right to the Halloween Snowstorm UPDATE part of this thread -
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=64943&p=652397#p652397
With a Salute to My Friends who encouraged me all along.

There are lots of options out there.

HTH

[squid13]

Here is a good thread for battery backup viewtopic/t49115/viewtopic.php?p=449334 I built mine just like John Fisher has in this thread. I store mine in the utility room.

[SleepDepraved2]

I was showing my husband the UPS/marine battery set up (he's a shop teacher) with the idea of building something like this in case of power outages. He said marine batteries have fumes and questioned the idea of keeping one inside the house. Is there a solution to the fumes the battery creates as it recharges?

[squid13]

Use a GEL or AGM battery. They don't emit fumes. I use a AGM battery.