Morning Headaches

[ems]

I've been waking with headaches for years, and found out a few months ago that morning headaches were a big sign of OSA. I've been on CPAP since July 7, and for awhile my headaches seemed to lessen, which was beyond wonderful. Now, it seems, I'm getting them more often again. According to my doctor, I'm doing fine and she doesn't want to change anything, but she doesn't have an explanation for the headaches. My AHI is around .9.

Anyone have any experience with morning headaches? Any ideas or suggestions would be most welcome. Thanks.

[Pugsy]

I don't know your age. Is it possible that the headaches are from cervical spine issues? Like arthritis?
Pre CPAP I woke up pretty much daily with some killer headaches that would fade away after a couple of hours.
Probably typical sleep apnea headaches as my O2 dropped to low 70%.

After CPAP started the killer headaches were rare but I found I was still waking with some headache that would normally fade after a couple of hours. Overnight pulse oximetery didn't show any desats so I couldn't really blame OSA even though I wanted to. I do have very bad arthritis in my cervical spine. I have a metal plate in it to stabilize the spine. Ugly arthritis. So I blame my neck. I still wake with headaches though not nearly as severe and I noticed a direct correlation to the type of pillow I used. Big pillow that puts my head more forward gives me a pretty bad headache.

You might experiment with different pillows to see if neck and head position is a contributing factor.

I am a small woman, small boned, small shoulders so I do better with a small flat pillow. It keeps the head and C spine in a straight line pretty much no matter what position I sleep in. I do use a buckwheat hull pillow. I like the firmness and the ease is positioning the hulls to suit my contours. Firm but not hard. Larger people with larger shoulders might prefer something with a bit more height.

So yes, I still wake up fairly frequently with a headache but much, much less in severity and usually goes away within 30 minutes or so. So minor there is no need to take anything for it.
When I have spent the night elsewhere and had to use another pillow I definitely could tell the difference.

May or may not be your issue but something to think about if you have any necks issues at all. Those muscle tension headaches can equal a migraine in their full glory.

[.mike]

I used to get headaches, the cpap helped a lot. Then I quit drinking and they went away. Seriously.

[ems]

I don't know your age. Is it possible that the headaches are from cervical spine issues? Like arthritis?
Pre CPAP I woke up pretty much daily with some killer headaches that would fade away after a couple of hours.
Probably typical sleep apnea headaches as my O2 dropped to low 70%.

After CPAP started the killer headaches were rare but I found I was still waking with some headache that would normally fade after a couple of hours. Overnight pulse oximetery didn't show any desats so I couldn't really blame OSA even though I wanted to. I do have very bad arthritis in my cervical spine. I have a metal plate in it to stabilize the spine. Ugly arthritis. So I blame my neck. I still wake with headaches though not nearly as severe and I noticed a direct correlation to the type of pillow I used. Big pillow that puts my head more forward gives me a pretty bad headache.

You might experiment with different pillows to see if neck and head position is a contributing factor.

I am a small woman, small boned, small shoulders so I do better with a small flat pillow. It keeps the head and C spine in a straight line pretty much no matter what position I sleep in. I do use a buckwheat hull pillow. I like the firmness and the ease is positioning the hulls to suit my contours. Firm but not hard. Larger people with larger shoulders might prefer something with a bit more height.

So yes, I still wake up fairly frequently with a headache but much, much less in severity and usually goes away within 30 minutes or so. So minor there is no need to take anything for it.
When I have spent the night elsewhere and had to use another pillow I definitely could tell the difference.

May or may not be your issue but something to think about if you have any necks issues at all. Those muscle tension headaches can equal a migraine in their full glory.

It could be arthritis, although I've had this type of headache for easily 30 years. And yes, very possibly muscle tension headaches which I thought they were before finding out I had OSA... so not really sure what they are or why. I've never had a headache that goes away after several hours. My headaches last until the following day and sometimes I wake a second day, or third with the same headache which goes down into my neck and shoulders. Sometimes so severe they definitely equal a migraine.

I'm a small woman also, and have been sleeping with a memory foam pillow that I tuck down under my neck... almost to my shoulders. Maybe it's time to think about a buckwheat hull pillow, and I'll check that out today. Where did you purchase yours?

Thanks so much for responding!

P.S. Mike... I don't drink... but thanks.

[Pugsy]

I got my buckwheat pillow from here. http://www.pur-sleep.com/products/prodD ... 200&pID=67 the small one. The larger on wasn't offered 2 years ago.

Some forum members have also had good luck with buckwheat pillows from this place.
http://www.beans72.com/beans72/0-Pillows2.htm

Sobakawa also makes a decent one and not quite so pricey.http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/search/ ... m=1&nty=1&

I love the feel of memory foam pillow (the ones with the cradle for the head) but even the low side of it is just a bit too high for positioning of my head.

Changing pillows may not help you but I understand where you are coming from. Sounds like your headaches are like what I used to call "killer" headaches. Sometimes I would wake at 4 AM with one and when I did.... I knew it was going to be with me for a while. Go to bed with headache and wake up with same headache. I had these nearly every day for years until I had the neck surgery. Then they returned about the time I started showing signs of sleep apnea (4 years or so after the surgery). While severe when I woke up...they would ease up after a couple of hours though and not stay with me for days at a time. Rarely get a severe headache now. Mostly just annoying.. at least compared to what I had in the past.

Wouldn't hurt to experiment with pillows though, just in case a change might help.

[robysue]

It could be arthritis, although I've had this type of headache for easily 30 years. And yes, very possibly muscle tension headaches which I thought they were before finding out I had OSA... so not really sure what they are or why. I've never had a headache that goes away after several hours. My headaches last until the following day and sometimes I wake a second day, or third with the same headache which goes down into my neck and shoulders. Sometimes so severe they definitely equal a migraine.

There's a chance that at least some of those headaches might be migraines: Not all migraines fit the classic stereotype of "Visual aura followed about 30-60 minutes later by searing stabbing pain on one side of the head."

Or, since you report the pain goes down into your neck and shoulders, it could be TMJ pain, which can often be mistaken for tension headaches, migraine headaches, sinus headaches, and more. At its worst, TMJ pain can be pretty wicked: It can be both quite severe, constant or almost constant, and somewhat problematic to treat. Typical questions that a dentist or doctor might ask when screening for TMJ issues include: Any pain between your temples and your ears? (that's where your TMJ is actually located.) Any popping noises, clicking noises, or pain when you chew or talk? Any pressure points for pain in your lower cheeks? Any pain on the inside of your cheeks in your mouth that feels similar to the headache pain? Is the pain much worse on waking? Any difficulty with opening or closing your mouth? How well do your teeth mesh together? Do you ever find yourself clenching or grinding your teeth during the daytime?

Since your headaches can go on for days and since they're occurring rather frequently, I'd strongly suggest asking your PCP for a referral to a headache specialist in order to rule out migraines and I'd also ask the PCP or your dentist for a referral to a specialist in TMJ and facial pain if there's any chance that you might have problems with the TMJ.

I'm a small woman also, and have been sleeping with a memory foam pillow that I tuck down under my neck... almost to my shoulders. Maybe it's time to think about a buckwheat hull pillow, and I'll check that out today. Where did you purchase yours?

Like pugsy and you, I'm also a very small woman. And like pugsy, I can't stand a thick pillow of any sort. I use a 20+ year old worn out down pillow that is thin and malleable and held together by two zippered pillow cases. The buckwheat pillows are now available at many retail outfits. I've seen them at our local Bed, Bath, and Beyond for example. If my down pillow ever finally gives up the ghost, I'll give some serious thought into replacing it with one of the buckwheat pillows.

[ems]

Thanks Robysue... appreciate your reply.

I don't think it's TMJ, as I silently answered no to your questions. However, I never even knew there was such a thing as a headache specialist - didn't know they existed. Excellent suggestion and will check that out! Both my PCP and sleep specialist said they thought my headaches would go away for good once I started CPAP. Oh well.

It's interesting that both you and Pugsy like a thinner pillow - and since I'm a small woman also, I'm seriously giving that thought. I read about the Buckwheat Pillow earlier tonight, and will go to Bed Bath and Beyond over the weekend. It seems to be the least expensive and makes the most sense, since it's an experiment. It has some pretty good reviews and now I'm anxious to buy it.

It would be so wonderful if the pillow actually worked... getting started with yet another doctor is not something I look forward to. And, I wonder if I would be able to get a clear cut explanation anyway.

Pugsy, thank you so much for the links, verrrry helpful.

Appreciate the input from both of you ladies!

[Pugsy]

I have been drooling over the buckwheat hull body pillow at beans72. I think it would make a wonderful support for my back to keep me on my side. I wouldn't care so much about being on my back except it increases my back and pelvic pain about 10 fold. The broken wrist this summer and the cast seemed to keep me on my back all the time and as usual bad habit easy to make and hard to break.

It will have to wait though. I have a new machine coming. Hopefully tomorrow, if not then Monday. So I am back to experimenting mode. More news to follow when I have some experience with it. PR S1 Bipap Auto. Whoopie.
I am hoping to duplicate the miracle I had last week with the BiPap Pro I got for mmko5 and of course I just had to try it out. OMG I felt like a million dollars and in 2 1/2 years I had never had the miracle then then. No idea why. I just know I want it again. It even helped my back pain and that makes no sense whatsoever. OHHHHH maybe it will help with the minor headaches I get now...wouldn't that be cool?

Oh BTW. The buckwheat hulls can be adjusted to suit your desired level of firmness. If it is too firm one can remove some of them.

[ems]

It even helped my back pain and that makes no sense whatsoever. OHHHHH maybe it will help with the minor headaches I get now...wouldn't that be cool?

That would be super cool!

[ems]

Drove to BB&B (35 minutes)

Given "Cloud". Said wrong one!

Hull - not one in store.

Have to order.

20% coupon and no shipping charge for not having one in stock.

Should receive by end of week.

Was soooo disappointed!

But, I did have the best nites sleep last nite and no headache today. Go figure.

[just a guest]

Are you sure that you're not losing therapy some nights by mouth breathing? Morning headaches, to me, always occured when mouth breathing during the night: tape the mouth every night now....no headache AM.

[Pugsy]

But, I did have the best nites sleep last nite and no headache today. Go figure.

Isn't that just the way things go sometimes? I am thinking that sleep position and/or bed pillow may be a contributing factor some how. Maybe not all of it but contributing in some fashion. Makes it difficult to isolate possible culprits.

Are you sure that you're not losing therapy some nights by mouth breathing? Morning headaches, to me, always occured when mouth breathing during the night: tape the mouth every night now....no headache AM.

While this can certainly impact things, it is easy to see on the reports if there is any leak of the magnitude to impair therapy and possibly be causing Oxygen desats which can sure cause the AM headaches.
For me I can have a zero to 0.1 L/min leak all night long with zero blips and an AHI less than 1 and still wake up with that annoying headache. For me, for sure it is my neck. 30 years of problems with it and at least that many pillows over the years in search of the "best" one pretty much seals the cause.

[ems]

30 years of problems with it and at least that many pillows over the years in search of the "best" one pretty much seals the cause.

Hmmmm... how much do you think you've spent on pillows over the years?

I recently added up just the "extras" since I've started CPAP... do you know the hand-fed cows folks have recently been talking about. Well, steak dinners run around $175.00, plus tax and tip. Could have enjoyed quite a steak dinner! But, since I seldom eat meat anymore, spending money on CPAP/headache toys is so much fun!

[Pugsy]

Hmmmm... how much do you think you've spent on pillows over the years

I don't even want to go there. I got lucky with the Regenisis buckwheat pillow. They were offering free pillows for a few people to try and then offer reviews. All I had to pay was shipping.
Back before I had my neck surgery, it hurt so bad I would have paid $1000 for a pillow if it would have helped.
Pillows can help but they don't help much when the cervical vertebrae are squishing into the spinal cord..
Should have had the surgery long before I did but didn't have insurance.
I would be using the buckwheat pillow even if I didn't have to use a cpap machine.

And yeah, all this cpap stuff adds up pretty quick. All the masks I experimented with (even though I got most at the cpapauction) and the various machines I keep accumulating. Just got another machine. I need to sell one. I don't need 2 backups. Now have to decide which one to sell.

My Padacheek hose cozy I got used from someone, for half price, who no longer needed 2 and it looked brand new.
The barrel cozy has been my best spent dollars for something for comfort.

[sickwithapnea17]

I noticed the TERRIBLE headaches since my O2 went down to 75%- are they caused by low O2?