Itamar Medical Watch-PAT 100

[jskinner]

More info on Itamar Medical Watch-PAT 100

http://www.sleepmedicinenetwork.com/pdf ... Pat100.pdf

http://www.europcronline.com/diapos/Eur ... Sheffy.pdf

[jskinner]

I've managed to get a copy of the type of sleep report that the Watch-PAT can produce. I'm starting to believe that this device could revolutionize the sleep testing business. For OSA only cases this device can eliminate the need for most PSGs.

Sample Report: http://james.istop.com/apnea/reports/PATsleepReport.pdf

Here in Nova Scotia you can get tested _without_ doctors referral with one of these for $75.

[jskinner]

Watch-PAT 100

They are also working on a newer version called the the Watch-PAT 200 that is much smaller

[Slinky]

I didn't respond to your original post starting this thread, James, but I did check both links and find it quite fascinating I so appreciate your additional information. THANK YOU!

[BASCONERO]

Hi James, I'm started enthused with this device after I've read your thread, but then I saw its price! Only 5,000.00 $!!! Isn't for me!!

[jskinner]

Hi James, I'm started enthused with this device after I've read your thread, but then I saw its price! Only 5,000.00 $!!! Isn't for me!!

Yes this is a device for sleep labs and DME's. Not patients.

[silver123]

Very interesting, thanks for posting this info....

silver

[DreamDiver]

First - Wow. This looks like a great next step.

Second - besides the size, they need to get the price down to below $500, especially if this is to revolutionize at-home diagnosis.

Other considerations:
It looks too much like something out of the old Star Trek series. That's going to hamper sales and credibility. They need to get shed of that device shape and come up with something slicker. And get that box off the fore arm. There should be rechargeable bluetooth thimbles or finger-clips connected to a pda-shaped device that sits on the nightstand.

[sleepguru]

The pictures shown are misleading. The example that they have shown does not show the full picture. The flaws that I see are:

1. The read out/ screen shot shows more sensors than what is seen in the person wearing this device.

2. Actigraphy, although has been studied for years, has not been considered an acceptable standard, and for good reason. This device works on movement alone. What it means is that when you are moving, most likely you are awake. When you're not moving, you are asleep. It's a guess. There are lots of people that can lay very still when still awake. To think that this will ever replace brain electrodes is ridiculous. How can one count how many respiratory events occur while asleep if you're not even measuring sleep.

3. There is one EEG (brain) electrode set on the screen shot "O2-A1". Any tech would tell you this derivation can not be used to score on. How in the world do they know that the values they posted under "detection of rem related apnea" actually happened in REM.

My concern is this. You can potentially lay very still and hold your breath over and over again and the report will show that you have sleep apnea. This is impossible during a sleep study in a controlled environment.

[roster]

.......
My concern is this. You can potentially lay very still and hold your breath over and over again and the report will show that you have sleep apnea. ........

And surely there will be millions of people without sleep-disordered breathing doing this to get the privilege to use a cpap system every night. Think of the huge increase in health care costs!

[Sleepguru]

I am failing to see what point you are trying to make, roost. The diagnosis of sleep apnea can not be made without proper testing. This graph rates the watchPAT right up there with a full PSG. There is no comparison.

An example would be someone saying that they can diagnose tuberculosis by looking into your ear. New, cheaper solutions can be looked at as a montior or even a parameter to use for follow up once a diagnosis is made, but I take issue with such measures being looked at as a screening tool. It has a huge potential to create false positives and false negatives. You have to take that into consideration when considering the cheaper option.

[roster]

........ New, cheaper solutions can be looked at as a montior or even a parameter to use for follow up once a diagnosis is made, but I take issue with such measures being looked at as a screening tool. It has a huge potential to create false positives and false negatives. You have to take that into consideration when considering the cheaper option.

I have read there are tens of millions of people (U.S. alone) who have undiagnosed sleep disorders. I maintain that the resources are not available, nor are they easily obtained to diagnose these disorders by standard sleep lab practices. Additionally, I believe obstructive sleep apnea accounts for 90+% of the cases.

So we have an economic problem if we want to provide diagnosis of osa to all who suffer with it. Certainly there will be false positives and false negatives with the Itamar device. The question is how many and at what cost and how can they be mitigated.

I believe our economic problem will never be solved with standard sleep lab practices. Let's move on to something else quickly.

[jskinner]

The pictures shown are misleading. The example that they have shown does not show the full picture. The flaws that I see are:
1. The read out/ screen shot shows more sensors than what is seen in the person wearing this device.

What are you talking about?

This device works on movement alone. What it means is that when you are moving, most likely you are awake. When you're not moving, you are asleep. It's a guess. There are lots of people that can lay very still when still awake. To think that this will ever replace brain electrodes is ridiculous. How can one count how many respiratory events occur while asleep if you're not even measuring sleep.

You are completely wrong. Did you even read the documentation? This device uses a new technology called PAT. Its FDA approved.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1846 ... d_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1723 ... d_RVDocSum

3. There is one EEG (brain) electrode set on the screen shot "O2-A1". Any tech would tell you this derivation can not be used to score on. How in the world do they know that the values they posted under "detection of rem related apnea" actually happened in REM.

Correction, there is zero EEG electrodes. Read the documentation.

My concern is this. You can potentially lay very still and hold your breath over and over again and the report will show that you have sleep apnea. This is impossible during a sleep study in a controlled environment.

You clearly didn't research how this device works.

[Goofproof]

My concern is this. You can potentially lay very still and hold your breath over and over again and the report will show that you have sleep apnea. This is impossible during a sleep study in a controlled environment.

If this is a concern the patient is being tested for the wrong thing, they are overdue for the nut-test! These tests probably won't be free, not trying to find the answer to your problems, and planning to fool a machine are a waste of time no sane person would do. Jim

[roster]

........
What are you talking about?

This device works on movement alone. What it means is that when you are moving, most likely you are awake. When you're not moving, you are asleep. It's a guess. There are lots of people that can lay very still when still awake. To think that this will ever replace brain electrodes is ridiculous. How can one count how many respiratory events occur while asleep if you're not even measuring sleep.

You are completely wrong. Did you even read the documentation? ..........

SleepGuru,

It sounds like you confused this product with the SleepTracker watch ($149 at http://www.sleeptracker.com/a/sleep-wat ... ep%20watch).

Maybe a little fear grabbed you? Fear that technology will take 95% of the demand away from traditional sleep labs and put you in the unemployment line?