Brain structural changes in obstructive sleep apnea.

[jskinner]

http://www.websciences.org/cftemplate/N ... D=20082368

CONCLUSIONS: White matter is extensively affected in OSA patients; the alterations include axons linking major structures within the limbic system, pons, frontal, temporal and parietal cortices, and projections to and from the cerebellum.

[GumbyCT]

OK so is that good or bad?

[DreamStalker]

OK so is that good or bad?

Hmmm ... the trend so far is that OSA is bad for CVD and lots of other things ...so my guess is that it is bad for white matter too. But I don't know for sure since having OSA for probably over 20 years must have done something to my brain cells

[Snoredog]

is this the same as leaving a big divot in yer brain?

cause I got a couple of those, I was thinking about turning that space into storage

on the brighter side they have to be running out of control groups pretty soon.

[crossfit]

huh? I don't understand? Wassa brain?



Actually, this stuff concerns me a lot. I have no doubt that I have brain damage from my OSA. I am just hoping it isn't as bad as I think. I certainly am better than two weeks ago (pre-treatment) but who knows what I lost.

[Guest]

Hi,

No doubt about these changes effect from years of osa......the CVD is the major cause fellow by all minor causes periodically trended to nerves systems and physical damages.

Mckooi

[sleepydoll]

Thanks for the info jskinner

I just want to add to your post about the importance of white matter of the brain and XPAP.


The white matter of the brain contains nerve fibers. Many of these nerve fibers (axons) are surrounded by substance called myelin. The myelin gives the whitish appearance to the white matter. Myelin acts as an insulator, and it increases the speed of transmission of all nerve signals.

"Treating obstructive sleep apnea with continuous positive airway pressure appears to reduce the incidence of clinically obvious stroke. This study provides a novel potential mechanism for this finding. In particular, those patients with silent infarcts and sleep apnea had elevated markers of platelet activation.

Furthermore, continuous positive airway pressure therapy for 3 months can lower such markers in this population, thereby providing a link between the white matter lesions and their pathogenesis.

Treatment with continuous positive airway pressure may therefore lead to a reduced incidence of subsequent ischemic brain lesions."

You can read the whole article at:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/65322.php

[packitin]

Yikes! I'm trying to make sense of this. I'd never heard of brain lesions before. I assume that's something related to strokes. Since I'm one of the oldest on this forum, and strokes are a real concern for me (slightly elevated blood pressure; not treating), do you know if higher BP is a factor in this? For you younger crowd, here is way to tell if you're getting older - when you get together with your friends, the conversation will always turn to the topic of "new diseases".
Thanks,
Jay

[DreamStalker]

So what is conclusion you have decided for this whatever you have subscribed here.

Conclusion?

CPAP = good thingy.

Apnea = bad thingy

[cpapper]

Conclusion?

CPAP = good thingy.

Apnea = bad thingy

Ahhh...that explains it, thank you. The technical information is great, but I like things summed up in a few words.

[jnk]

CPAP = good thingy.

Apnea = bad thingy

I'm not sure I understand DreamStalker's post. But I may tape a printout of it on the front of my xpap thingy anyway!

jnk

[sleepydoll]

Yikes! I'm trying to make sense of this. I'd never heard of brain lesions before. I assume that's something related to strokes. Since I'm one of the oldest on this forum, and strokes are a real concern for me (slightly elevated blood pressure; not treating), do you know if higher BP is a factor in this? Thanks,
Jay

__________________________________

Sorry Jay ! I'll try to be a bit clearer

Ischemia is a restriction in blood supply, generally due to factors in the blood vessels, which results in damage or dysfunction of tissue.
In an ischemic stroke or lesion, blood supply to part of the brain is decreased, leading to dysfunction and necrosis ( death) of the brain tissue in that area.

Ischemia results in tissue damage because of a lack of oxygen and nutrients. Ultimately, this causes great damage because of a buildup of metabolic wastes. (these harmful chemicals damage and may ultimately kill brain tissue).
The heart, the kidneys, and the brain are among the organs that are the most sensitive to inadequate blood supply.


Now, concerning your slightly elevated untreated blood pressure... we know that persistent hypertension is one of the risk factors for strokes.
And sleep apnea is a common, under-recognized cause of hypertension.
Perhaps you should monitor your blood pressure more often, just to be on the safe side!

Conclusion?

CPAP = good thingy.

Apnea = bad thingy

[Snoredog]

Yikes! I'm trying to make sense of this. I'd never heard of brain lesions before. I assume that's something related to strokes. Since I'm one of the oldest on this forum, and strokes are a real concern for me (slightly elevated blood pressure; not treating), do you know if higher BP is a factor in this? For you younger crowd, here is way to tell if you're getting older - when you get together with your friends, the conversation will always turn to the topic of "new diseases".
Thanks,
Jay

Ah Slinky is way older than you, she is older than dirt, she once dated a young guy, Keith Richards and you know how old he is

Having a bunch of TIA's and a couple strokes myself starting at age 45, and I was all slim trim and racy too. Back then I did several years of researching the research. Back then when google was in its infancy you can find nearly anything before server owners wised up to their scanning and started cracking down on server security.

But you can live without another stroke besides the odds, I was told by one neuro after my second one if I made it 5 years I'd be lucky, well its been more than 8 so far and not a single TIA, so I assume she didn't have all her ducks in a row but boy could she quack.

Avoiding another stroke is about knowing and understanding the risk factors for it. Avoid those risks and you can easily live a normal life. Knowing your own risk factors, lifestyle has a lot to do with it be nearly all of it is related to cardiovascular disease and how it progresses and how to prevent it.

If you understand CVD you know inflammation plays a big role in it. The key is to avoid the inflammation. Avoid that inflammation to the arterial system and you can avoid a lot of the risk factors and/or greatly reduce them. Treat your body like a plant, a plant with cells, keep it watered, keep it supplied with oxygen and nutrients.

If you don't water a plant it wilts and dies. Deprive your body of blood oxygen the cells that make up the arterial walls begin to wilt and die, when that happens the liver sends in cholesterol, it builds up to make repairs to those cells until platelets can make a more permanent repair. The build up of platelets is what you want to avoid so that is why I take a daily aspirin and have done so for past 8 years.

So do you want to take a cholesterol drug to lower or prevent that? or do you want to stop the wilting of those cells, because if you can do that the liver keeps cholesterol levels normal.

Not me, I'm not into doctors and prescription drugs. I'd rather lower my risk factors by keeping those red blood cells supplied with fresh oxygen and water, keep those red blood cells nice and round and healthy so they can carry more oxygen than deformed ones from having too much CO2 in the blood supply. Atherosclerosis the name they gave it many call it hardening of the arteries. But more important than the name is understanding how it gets there. It is all about getting CO2 out of your body (within limits) and getting oxygen to your arterial system. Know one thing, if you have it in your arterial system you have it everywhere, in your legs, in your arms, in your heart, in your brain.

It shows up as lesions or plaques in the brain on a MRI. Keep in mind the brain contains some of the tiniest blood vessels in the human body, some so small a single red blood cell can have difficulty traversing. How hard would it be for a group of platelets to block off that vessel? Not real hard.

IF you study pathology of stroke or infarction you learn your tiny lenticulostriate arteries off the MCA are most at risk for Lacunar stroke. I can put up my MRI and put up a cartoon showing that risk and it is like google maps of the brain. I can even determine the parts of my body lost/impacted from the effects of my stroke.

If you stumbled over OSA like I did by using CPAP you are getting to the root cause of your stroke in my opinion. Study Atherosclerosis down to the cellular level including pathology study of inflammation and it may turn on a light once you understand it, then all this other stuff is kind of irrelevant. Once understood you'll be able change your lifestyle without the use of a shoe box full of prescription drugs and BS.

I only take a daily 325mg Ecotrin aspirin for stroke prevention. I used to take Plavix but that got too expensive after losing insurance and all the research I did on Aspirin shows it to be just as effective and even safer if you suddenly need to stop it like for surgery. Aspirin stays in your blood stream a good 10 days, taking it daily only gives it a booster to last another day.

I do take supplemental vitamins a multi for adults from Costco and I take an additional 500mg of niacin. Niacin attacks that Atherosclerosis better than anything and Niacin is OTC and cheap. But if you have insurance you can ask your doctor about Niaspan (http://www.niaspan.com) it is prescription only same strength but it is time-released coated so it doesn't cause as much flushing, but once you get used to the flushing and I take it at bed time along with the aspirin so by the time it dissolves I'm asleep before the flushing ever takes place.

But you have to do what feels comfortable to you. You reduce a lot of those risk factors with the CPAP machine alone. Dental devices don't force oxygen into your system, reason I'm not real fond of them for OSA.

Then if you are a shallow breather like I am, it is nice that machine forces it into you, the AHI for me is irrelevant. I use it solely because I know it keeps my oxygen levels normal. For me reducing factors of stroke is elimination of OSA, staying hydrated, using CPAP and aspirin and keeping my hypertension below 120/80. I sometimes take an occasional Lisinopril to control hypertension but after a few weeks that starts working on muscle cramps so I go off it for a while and just monitor it daily. I've been doing that routine now over 8 years. I started with an ulcer the size of a golf ball according to the picture from the GI endoscopy exam, and it was still recommended I take a 325mg aspirin plus Plavix daily, but as mentioned when I lost insurance it got too expensive and so far I haven't needed it.

While it is not good to take a shot-gun approach to most things, in the case of stroke risk factors it is in my opinion. Keep the blood thin, keep the oxygen up, watch the diet and exercise works for me.

[mindy]

...Since I'm one of the oldest on this forum, ...

Besides Slinky being as old as time and I'm getting close to her age (I think), what drives you to that conclusion???

Mindy

[Guest]

Hi Snoredog,

Indeed. Correct strategic treatment of CVD plays vital role for longevity in your current on going situation. May I know the following listed below. Please explain.

1) What brand of Naicin? Descriptions.....?
2) What brand of Aspirin? Descriptions......?
3) What brand of supplemental vitamins a multi for adults? Descriptions....?
4) CPAP brand? Description....?
5) Plavix.....Description?
6) Exercise regime?

Thank you for the sharing of wise well thought opinion and experience that you walk the talk.

Best Regards,
Mckooi