What is an acceptable level of Mask Leak?

[Snorkel]

I've been doing the air hose in snozz things for about a month, and have noticed that my leak rates appear high. My mask has an avg leak rate at my setting (7cm h2o) of around 27l/m, yet my nightly rate looks like this:

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and this is fairly consistent over every night, with leaks looking like this:



So, my question is does this look like too high a leak rate?

During my sleep study I had one Apopnea event the entire night (many Hypopneas, though), yet my machine is recording lots of Apopneas now, which could be due to it being a less accurate detector or due to leakage:



If the leak rate is too high I don't think I am mouth breathing (using the Swift I nasal pillow), but as a test I'm willing to tape my mouth shut. This raises my last question: how does one tape their mouth shut?

Again, want to thank folks for the helpful and kind input. It helps a lot.

David

[blarg]

Ideally, those should look like a flat line. Unless the mask is dislodging, it looks like it's time to tape and see what happens. It also wouldn't be the end of the world to TRY with a chin strap if you can get ahold of a good one for cheap/nothing. I get good results with mine.

Here's a highly respected how to that Rooster wrote about taping:
viewtopic.php?t=9653

Here's Rested Gal's list of links on taping, DIY mouthguards etc:
viewtopic.php?p=69526

[Snorkel]

Thanks blarg. So, basically even duct tape would work - but I'll stick with the surgical stuff.

The mask does occasionally ride up my face, and I find it on my eyes or forehead... can't figure out how that happens, either.

thnx!

David

[blarg]

Someone that uses the Swift can hop in here with your mask dislodging issue, but know that we only joke about using Duct Tape. The adhesive isn't exactly the most gentle on skin, and remember that it's gonna sit there for hours at a time.

[jules]

there are many fixes for the swift - I think the one by svh where they took the straps and safetypinned them was great -

viewtopic.php?t=14991&highlight=swift

there are other fixes - I used an elastic band from the triangles back around the back of my head to stabilize it - there are a bunch of fixes in this

viewtopic.php?t=5965&highlight=swift+fix

for the swift at a pressure of 9 I have a leak rate in the upper mid 20's - your average is a little high - those higher bars on your graphs are a problem like between hour 10 and 11 - I bet the mask was half way up your face at that time

No, blarg, I haven't used duct tape with the swift but read the fixes and get some ideas

[Snorkel]

Thanks for the fitting suggestions. Some of them sound good, and I was really beginning to feel my situation of the mask riding up my face as being something unique to my anatomy. Now that I know it's not, I'll be interested in trying out the velcro patch to see if that helps. Also have the mouth taped tonight. This is seriously going to put a damper on my love life, but that's another issue.

With all the mask choices available, it's gotta be hard to find one that really works well for an individual.

thanks
david

[blarg]

With all the mask choices available, it's gotta be hard to find one that really works well for an individual.

Well, yes and no. If there were less choices it'd make it even harder.

Seriously though, we can narrow the field down SIGNIFICANTLY if you tell us how you sleep (tummy/side/back), if you toss and turn, and if you have sensitive nares (tolerate nasal pillows well or not).

[Guest]

I spend 90%+ of my sleep time on my side, and probably 80% of that time on the right side. I turn occassionally, probably on order of 4-6 times per night (this is a guess). I tolerate the pillows fairly well, as long as I've got the humidifier cranked up.

Here's the one odd thing that sets me apart from most: I sleep with a pillow on top of my head. Whether this is to block out light, noise, whatever, I've been sleeping like this since I was a young boy. If a pillow isn't available, it's a tee shirt wrapped around my eyes.

Maybe the nasal job isn't for me... maybe I have to go full-face, although I suspect that will for me be less comfy.

thanks
david

[Joethespy]

I'm new to the board so please excuse me if I offend anyone but I'm not sure that using tape is the best solution. Also if you use tape be careful not to cover or even partially block the exhalation ports.

I'm a technologist so I have seen lots of leaks. Ideally the leak should be flat but realistically is will never be. All masks have different level of leak. Some masks have built in high level of leak but that is normal for that mask. Years ago leak was measured as a percentage now it is measured in volume. Some CPAP machines compensate (somewhat) for a leak but I'm not sure which ones do and which ones don't.

The real question is how do you feel in the AM? If you feel OK then don't worry about what the machine says the leak is. When we are performing a study that has a relatively high leak but airflow is good, we leave it alone and just note the high leak. We only take action if the leak effects our airflow.

If you don't feel as well as you did, like someone suggested, try a chin strap. There are many different types available. If that does not work, you may need to change to a mask that seals better.

Good Luck....Joe

[DreamStalker]

Thanks Joe ... but I think they were referring to taping mouth when using a nasal type interface ... not taping mask to face or covering exhalation ports.

Somehow I get the feeling you have never worn one of these contraptions yourself (at least to sleep in for a whole night) ... correct?

I also think you may be referring to pressure rather than "air flow" since leaks DO indeed affect "air flow".

Finally, chin straps do not work for most but I do agree that if one cannot get a good seal, a different mask may be needed.

BTW - The real question is why are you spying on us?

[cpapernewbie]

Joethespy

you sound exactly like my RT

He told me that I am not a Professional RT, so there is no need for me to chek my AHI and my leaks

He will do this for me once a year and that is all I need.

Before CPAP, I think I am normal too. Until I was told that my AHI is around 100 and my min oxygen is 70%.

I believe to be successful in CPAP treatment, we all should take charge of our treatment. Once a year is not enough

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP, AHI

[Wulfman]

BTW - The real question is why are you spying on us?

Roberto,

He came here to LEARN......

Den

[Snorkel]

With all the mask choices available, it's gotta be hard to find one that really works well for an individual.

Well, yes and no. If there were less choices it'd make it even harder.

Seriously though, we can narrow the field down SIGNIFICANTLY if you tell us how you sleep (tummy/side/back), if you toss and turn, and if you have sensitive nares (tolerate nasal pillows well or not).

[Snorkel]

bump..

any help w/ above questions would be dandy. thnx-David

[jules]

don't know you but my AHI goes up if I raise my pressure too high even if I have leaks under control

for the swift with a pressure of 9 my leaks show up 26 +/- 2 and not super flat but fairly flat graph - far from what you had in the graph you had posted - guess you didn't read what I said above

you should be able to draw a horizontal line at 25 on the graphs and see how much of the night you are above that line - if you are above it more than a smidgeon, you got leaks and need to figure them out especially if that last more than a few minutes at a time

taping solves mouth leaks for many but not all - check the RG try to blow out after taping and if you can - well - you didn't pass taping 101 - some ppl have resorted to using denture seal strips to help too