Unreliable data during “compliance” period?

[WakeMeNot]

First of all TY to all the people who have been answering so many questions for us Newbies.

Secondly, don’t yell at me yet about posting data…only a couple of weeks into this journey and just learning how to spell Oscar. (Although I am quite analytical and I’m confident that in a few weeks I’ll be posting chart questions at 2am instead of sleeping! Oh the irony!).

Finally my question is as follows. I am having a real challenge even falling asleep with the CPAP going. But I am committed for the first time (several previous attempts). So I am literally wearing mask while reading in afternoon; lying in bed; etc…

This results in maybe 4 to 5 hours wearing mask but only an hour or two of actual (fitful) sleep.

Does this throw off my ratios? For example: If I am wearing mask for four hours but only asleep for one; does this mean my 5 AHI is actually 20 (e.g assuming all 20 occurred in the one hour I was actually sleeping but software divides it by 4 total hours on?

Thanks.

[lynninnj]

First of all TY to all the people who have been answering so many questions for us Newbies.

Secondly, don’t yell at me yet about posting data…only a couple of weeks into this journey and just learning how to spell Oscar. (Although I am quite analytical and I’m confident that in a few weeks I’ll be posting chart questions at 2am instead of sleeping! Oh the irony!).

Finally my question is as follows. I am having a real challenge even falling asleep with the CPAP going. But I am committed for the first time (several previous attempts). So I am literally wearing mask while reading in afternoon; lying in bed; etc…

This results in maybe 4 to 5 hours wearing mask but only an hour or two of actual (fitful) sleep.

Does this throw off my ratios? For example: If I am wearing mask for four hours but only asleep for one; does this mean my 5 AHI is actually 20 (e.g assuming all 20 occurred in the one hour I was actually sleeping but software divides it by 4 total hours on?

Thanks.

The best way to know is to post the data. .

The machine doesn’t know when you’re awake or asleep.

I find sleephq easier to use and post but you should go whichever way you feel most comfortable.

Kudos to you for not giving up. I hope you get used to it soon because it isn’t doing you much good if you’re not wearing while sleeping.

gl

[Respirator99]

It's quite possible to record "apneas" while you're awake, as breathing tends to be irregular and the machine interprets various pauses as apneas (typically central apnea). But I suspect the majority of events will be when you're actually asleep, so your thoughts about under-reporting are probably correct.

We'll know better when you're able to spell Oscar!

[ChicagoGranny]

able to spell Oscar

*OSCAR

[palerider]

Secondly, don’t yell at me yet about posting data…

Telling you that we need meaningful data to do more than guess isn't 'yelling'.
It's really quite simple: wiki/index.php/Oscar:organize

Finally my question is as follows.

And now you're asking us to guess.

[Jlfinkels]

Secondly, don’t yell at me yet about posting data…only a couple of weeks into this journey and just learning how to spell Oscar. (Although I am quite analytical and I’m confident that in a few weeks I’ll be posting chart questions at 2am instead of sleeping! Oh the irony!).

This confuses me. You state that you are analytical, you also know folks will need data to offer sounds advice, you even recognize they will need data. But then you proceed to ask questions that can only be answered with data. Basically all folks can do is guess. Amateurs guess, then apologise afterwards.

No one knows what kind of machine you have, what the settings are, what kind of mask you use, what your AHI or other metrics are from the machines report screen, nor what kinds of meds or other external influences there may be on your sleep.

For anything other than a WAG, please post some data on things while you get the handle on OSCAR. At least with some basic data people can offer help based on facts.

[robysue1]

Finally my question is as follows. I am having a real challenge even falling asleep with the CPAP going. But I am committed for the first time (several previous attempts). So I am literally wearing mask while reading in afternoon; lying in bed; etc…

This results in maybe 4 to 5 hours wearing mask but only an hour or two of actual (fitful) sleep.

Does this throw off my ratios? For example: If I am wearing mask for four hours but only asleep for one; does this mean my 5 AHI is actually 20 (e.g assuming all 20 occurred in the one hour I was actually sleeping but software divides it by 4 total hours on?

It's ok to wear the mask while you are awake in an effort to get used to it and in order to make sure that you don't lose the machine for lack of "compliance."

But until you are actually sleeping with the mask all night long, there's no point in wondering about the accuracy or unreliability of the recorded AHI numbers. Here's why:

• Wake breathing is very ragged compared to sleep breathing. So events are likely being flagged while you are wide awake and reading in the middle of the afternoon. You can disregard all efficacy data recorded during these times. (But the "usage" data counts towards the "compliance" your insurance requires to pay for its share of the machine.)
• Getting only a fitful hour or two of sleep with the mask during the night means that most of your nightly sleep is still without using the CPAP machine. In other words, most of your sleep is still untreated OSA sleep. So you're not going to feel magically better any time soon just because you've got a couple of hours of bad sleep with the CPAP combined with the rest of your usual bad sleep from the OSA.

So your job right now is learning how to sleep with the mask on your face. In other words, you need to focus on teaching yourself how to get to sleep and stay asleep with this thing plastered to your nose at night rather than wondering whether the data is "unreliable."

So first things first:

1) Can you describe why you are having a hard time falling asleep when you have the mask on your nose? In particular, can you tell us about any comfort issues you are having that are preventing you from falling asleep? Reading How to accurately describe your problems might help you articulate what's making it difficult to fall asleep (and stay asleep) while using the mask

2) Can you tell us what machine you are using, what mask you are using, what your pressure setting is, and whether you are using a ramp? It's also useful to tell us if you are using a heated hose (what temp?) and/or a humidifier (what setting?) All of this comes from looking at the machine, rather than looking at stuff in Oscar. But all of it will help us address whatever comfort issues you are dealing with that are preventing you from falling asleep and staying asleep during the night with the mask on your face.

3) Can you tell us what your pre-CPAP sleep habits were in terms of when you went to bed, how long it took you to get to sleep, how often you woke up during the night, and when you got up in the morning? And then let us know how these things have changed now that you are trying to use the machine for at least an hour or two each night.


Next, you start your post off by writing:

First of all TY to all the people who have been answering so many questions for us Newbies.

Secondly, don’t yell at me yet about posting data…only a couple of weeks into this journey and just learning how to spell Oscar. (Although I am quite analytical and I’m confident that in a few weeks I’ll be posting chart questions at 2am instead of sleeping! Oh the irony!).

The question you pose about whether the data is totally unreliable because of the large amount of time you are using the machine while reading in the afternoon can only be addressed if we can see the data in Oscar or SleepHQ.

We don't yell at newbies about posting data: When we ask for data, we are not comfortable answering the newbie's question without having some data to base our answers on.

[dataq1]

The question you pose about whether the data is totally unreliable because of the large amount of time you are using the machine while reading in the afternoon can only be addressed if we can see the data in Oscar or SleepHQ.

Actually, any event data that is observed while you are awake (e,g, reading) is invalid aka "totally unreliable" and useless. I hope that answers one of your questions.

If and when you post OSCAR or SleepHQ reports, be sure to note periods of wakefullness, so that the data can be sanitized. Otherwise the resulting AHI data will be skewed.

[robysue1]

The question you pose about whether the data is totally unreliable because of the large amount of time you are using the machine while reading in the afternoon can only be addressed if we can see the data in Oscar or SleepHQ.

Actually, any event data that is observed while you are awake (e,g, reading) is invalid aka "totally unreliable" and useless. I hope that answers one of your questions.

The OP is asking about how the "invalid" data from the sessions when he is awake is affecting the machine's summary AHI data. In order to tease that out, we need to know:

• How much time the OP used the machine when he was clearly awake because he was reading in the afternoon.
• How many events were flagged when the OP was using the machine when he was reading in the afternoon.
• How much time he used the machine when he was in bed trying to sleep.
• How many events were flagged when he was using the machine when he was in bed trying to sleep.
• How much actual sleep did he get?
• When did the events that were flagged when he was in bed trying to sleep occur? Did they happen at times when he was likely asleep? Or did they occur when he was likely awake?

But to tease all that out and answer the OP's question, we need to see the data.

If all the events were flagged when the OP was awake and reading in the afternoon, then his treated AHI would 0.0.

On the other hand, if none of the events were flagged when the OP was awake and reading in the afternoon, his treated AHI Is significantly higher than the number reported on the machine's LCD, which gloms all the sessions since 12 noon the previous afternoon together into one "sleep report" that you see when you get up in the morning.

But the OP's real problem is not whether his AHI is 5 or 20 in a 1-2 hour period of trying to sleep with the machine each night. The OP's real problem is that he needs to learn to sleep with the mask on his nose all night long. His OSA is still largely untreated, so the treated OSA is kind of irrelevant.

We need to get the OP to tell us what problems he needs to fix in order to sleep with the CPAP machine all night long, rather than for only an hour or two.

[dataq1]

The question you pose about whether the data is totally unreliable because of the large amount of time you are using the machine while reading in the afternoon can only be addressed if we can see the data in Oscar or SleepHQ.

Actually, any event data that is observed while you are awake (e,g, reading) is invalid aka "totally unreliable" and useless. I hope that answers one of your questions.

The OP is asking about how the "invalid" data from the sessions when he is awake is affecting the machine's summary AHI data. In order to tease that out, we need to know:

• How much time the OP used the machine when he was clearly awake because he was reading in the afternoon.
• How many events were flagged when the OP was using the machine when he was reading in the afternoon.
• How much time he used the machine when he was in bed trying to sleep.
• How many events were flagged when he was using the machine when he was in bed trying to sleep.
• How much actual sleep did he get?
• When did the events that were flagged when he was in bed trying to sleep occur? Did they happen at times when he was likely asleep? Or did they occur when he was likely awake?

But to tease all that out and answer the OP's question, we need to see the data.

If all the events were flagged when the OP was awake and reading in the afternoon, then his treated AHI would 0.0.

On the other hand, if none of the events were flagged when the OP was awake and reading in the afternoon, his treated AHI Is significantly higher than the number reported on the machine's LCD, which gloms all the sessions since 12 noon the previous afternoon together into one "sleep report" that you see when you get up in the morning.

But the OP's real problem is not whether his AHI is 5 or 20 in a 1-2 hour period of trying to sleep with the machine each night. The OP's real problem is that he needs to learn to sleep with the mask on his nose all night long. His OSA is still largely untreated, so the treated OSA is kind of irrelevant.

We need to get the OP to tell us what problems he needs to fix in order to sleep with the CPAP machine all night long, rather than for only an hour or two.

He seems to very explicit in asking his (hypothetical?) question:

If I am wearing mask [with the device running] for four hours but only asleep for one; does this mean my [reported] 5 AHI is actually 20 (e.g assuming all 20 occurred in the one hour I was actually sleeping? (brackets added for clarity)

The answer is ... yes, sir. That is correct.

[jimbud]

He seems to very explicit in asking his (hypothetical?) question:

Is dataq1 dumber than a rock?

The answer is ... yes, sir. That is correct.

JPB

[lazarus]

Thank you for the great framing of the real question, robysue1.

And I hope yer safely hunkered down for the coming lake-effect fun.

[lynninnj]

He seems to very explicit in asking his (hypothetical?) question:

If I am wearing mask [with the device running] for four hours but only asleep for one; does this mean my [reported] 5 AHI is actually 20 (e.g assuming all 20 occurred in the one hour I was actually sleeping? (brackets added for clarity)

The answer is ... yes, sir. That is correct.

Dude-really?

You think you can extrapolate like that?

Quite frankly, you have been around here long enough that you should:

a) have a better grasp at reading the data “even though you aren’t a medical professional” and
b) you should know better.

[Jlfinkels]

He seems to very explicit in asking his (hypothetical?) question:

If I am wearing mask [with the device running] for four hours but only asleep for one; does this mean my [reported] 5 AHI is actually 20 (e.g assuming all 20 occurred in the one hour I was actually sleeping? (brackets added for clarity)

The answer is ... yes, sir. That is correct.

Dude-really?

You think you can extrapolate like that?

Quite frankly, you have been around here long enough that you should:

a) have a better grasp at reading the data “even though you aren’t a medical professional” and
b) you should know better.

And don’t forget:

c) Amateurs guess, then apologise afterwards…

[palerider]

He seems to very explicit in asking his (hypothetical?) question:

If I am wearing mask [with the device running] for four hours but only asleep for one; does this mean my [reported] 5 AHI is actually 20 (e.g assuming all 20 occurred in the one hour I was actually sleeping? (brackets added for clarity)

The answer is ... yes, sir. That is correct.

Dude-really?

Quite frankly, you have been around here long enough that you should:

That assumption is false, because dataq1 one is just here to troll, not to learn anything or help anyone.