travel / backup machine suggestions

[pswartz]

I recently upgraded from recalled SystemOne 960P to an AirCurve 10 ASV. I am much happier with the AirCurve – its quieter and seems easier on me, BTW.

I am looking for a travel / backup machine, and am not inclined to purchase a second ASV as they are very expensive. I believe I only have mild Apnea, and that the Sleep Dr who prescribed the BiPap 8 years ago did so so that I had maximum flexibility, should I need it.

The settings on my machine are:
min EPAP 6
max EPAP 10
min press supp 2
max press supp 6

On the old SystemOne, I would average around 2 AHI as reported by Oscar. With the AirCuve, I am less than 1, and often at 0.

My question, is what machine can I use for my backup / travel? Can I use the AirCurve 10 Autoset For her? Any others? Will something less expensive than the full ASV work for me?

Thanks!

[ChicagoGranny]

What factors would stop you from using your main machine for travel?

[Pugsy]

My question, is what machine can I use for my backup / travel? Can I use the AirCurve 10 Autoset For her? Any others? Will something less expensive than the full ASV work for me?

It all depends on why the ASV is working for you as to how much success (or not) a different machine would entail.
The other machines obviously can't deal with centrals at all but if someone really doesn't have enough centrals that need dealing with then in theory, anyway, one of the other less expensive machines might work out just fine.

Your current ASV settings aren't really what we would expect to see with central apnea treatment anyway.
Most specifically the max PS of 6. Usually PS of 6 isn't what we would see for central apnea treatment...maybe somewhere around 8 or 10 or more (and the machine hitting the higher max often) would be what we would expect if centrals needed dealing with.
Right now your PS has a range it can auto adjust as needed...2 to 6.
If you look at your OSCAR software reports how often does the PS increase above 2? Do you hit the PS of 6 very much?

[chunkyfrog]

I agree with granny.
I also take my regular machine on the road.
Travel machines take a lot away to give you an itty bitty purse size,
that makes more noise, has fewer features, and costs an extra leg.

[ChicagoGranny]

I also take my regular machine on the road.

It's what our bodies are accustomed to. On the road is one of the worst places to have suboptimal therapy.

[Deborah K.]

My husband and I both take our regular pap machines with us when we travel. We don't see the need for extra machines.

[Pugsy]

It would not necessarily be sub optimal therapy to use a different machine while traveling or as a back up.
It all depends on what the ASV is actually doing for a person.
There are people using ASV that don't have a problem with centrals. So to use a machine that couldn't deal with centrals isn't going to mean sub optimal therapy when/if there are no centrals really needing to be dealt with.
Heck, I used an ASV for a couple of years just because I liked it and I got a hot deal on it to try it.
Going back to a regular bilevel or even regular apap wasn't a big deal for me. I didn't sacrifice optimal therapy at all.
But then I didn't have a problem with centrals being numerous.

So it's all going to depend on what the ASV might be doing that couldn't be done with a different machine.
If it isn't doing anything special....a different model machine might work out just fine.
Just because the ASV can deal with centrals doesn't necessarily mean that it is dealing with a ton of centrals.

I am NOT saying at this point that there wouldn't be a problem because not enough information is known but I am saying that depending on what the ASV is doing....there's a chance that auto bilevel or apap wouldn't mean sub optimal therapy.

[pswartz]

My question, is what machine can I use for my backup / travel? Can I use the AirCurve 10 Autoset For her? Any others? Will something less expensive than the full ASV work for me?

It all depends on why the ASV is working for you as to how much success (or not) a different machine would entail.
The other machines obviously can't deal with centrals at all but if someone really doesn't have enough centrals that need dealing with then in theory, anyway, one of the other less expensive machines might work out just fine.

Your current ASV settings aren't really what we would expect to see with central apnea treatment anyway.
Most specifically the max PS of 6. Usually PS of 6 isn't what we would see for central apnea treatment...maybe somewhere around 8 or 10 or more (and the machine hitting the higher max often) would be what we would expect if centrals needed dealing with.
Right now your PS has a range it can auto adjust as needed...2 to 6.
If you look at your OSCAR software reports how often does the PS increase above 2? Do you hit the PS of 6 very much?

I attached an Oscar report... not sure which graph is the actual PS value. Thank-you for helping me understand!

[pswartz]

What factors would stop you from using your main machine for travel?

I would rather not take the expensive machine with me in case it gets damaged, stolen, etc. I would need to pay for the repairs and/or replacement. Years ago, I was able to purchase a second 960P so it was the same model that I took when I travel. Now, its really too expensive to get a second AirCurve 10 ASV. But other models seem available at a reasonable cost, so I want to explore that. Its worth ~$500 to have second machine, but not $3,000+.

[chunkyfrog]

What factors would stop you from using your main machine for travel?

I would rather not take the expensive machine with me in case it gets damaged, stolen, etc. I would need to pay for the repairs and/or replacement. Years ago, I was able to purchase a second 960P so it was the same model that I took when I travel. Now, its really too expensive to get a second AirCurve 10 ASV. But other models seem available at a reasonable cost, so I want to explore that. Its worth ~$500 to have second machine, but not $3,000+.

You make sense.
The best way to tell how you feel with a different machine would be
to use it for a few nights before "shipping out."

[ChicagoGranny]

I would rather not take the expensive machine with me in case it gets damaged, stolen, etc.

[Deborah K.]

When we fly we take our pap machines on the plane with us and put them under our seats. That way they for sure won't be damaged or stolen. Just something to consider.

[Pugsy]

PS is the difference between inhale and exhale. Unfortunately that particular version of the sleep report doesn't really show us what the PS is doing other than the spikes in the pressure graphs.

The daily detailed report and it's statistics on the left side might help out better.
It does look like you are quite often getting the full PS of 6 which may or may not mean all that much.
The machine is fighting something or it wouldn't be maxing out PS at 6. If it wasn't fighting something your IPAP would be more stable at around the 8 or 9 IPAP mark. The only real reason for a big PS jump is the machine thinking a central apnea is happening. That is how PS works to deal with centrals...gives you a big push of air to jump start your breathing since a central apnea is a cessation of breathing but the airway is open.

In the detailed report you can actually zoom in on small segments of the pressure graph and see how much PS is going up.

See examples here for what the detailed report looks like.
viewtopic/t158560/How-to-post-images-for-review.html

See the videos here for explanation of how to zoom in on the pressure graph (or any graph).
http://freecpapadvice.com/sleepyhead-free-software

[pswartz]

PS is the difference between inhale and exhale. Unfortunately that particular version of the sleep report doesn't really show us what the PS is doing other than the spikes in the pressure graphs.

The daily detailed report and it's statistics on the left side might help out better.
It does look like you are quite often getting the full PS of 6 which may or may not mean all that much.
The machine is fighting something or it wouldn't be maxing out PS at 6. If it wasn't fighting something your IPAP would be more stable at around the 8 or 9 IPAP mark. The only real reason for a big PS jump is the machine thinking a central apnea is happening. That is how PS works to deal with centrals...gives you a big push of air to jump start your breathing since a central apnea is a cessation of breathing but the airway is open.

In the detailed report you can actually zoom in on small segments of the pressure graph and see how much PS is going up.

See examples here for what the detailed report looks like.
viewtopic/t158560/How-to-post-images-for-review.html

See the videos here for explanation of how to zoom in on the pressure graph (or any graph).
http://freecpapadvice.com/sleepyhead-free-software

Here are the screen shots from the left side. Drilling into the Pressure graph shows it fluctuating between 8.5 and 12.5 (approx).

[Pugsy]

Unfortunately with your current settings it's pretty much impossible to know for sure what the machine is fighting at any given time. Both EPAP and PS are restricted which then of course restricts IPAP.
This ASV machine treats both obstructive apneas and central apneas.
It uses PS for the central treating meaning it increases PS if it thinks you aren't breathing and the reason for not breathing isn't the collapse of the airways.
It uses EPAP range for dealing with obstructive stuff.
So we see the machine fighting the obstructive in nature stuff and with the increase in PS at time we assume it is fighting the central in nature stuff.

Your max PS is 7 and not 6 and that's getting really close to what would help out if a central apnea popped up.
It appears that at times you do hit that max PS of 7. We wouldn't expect that max of PS to be used to fight obstructives though. Unfortunately we aren't given a statistic that tells us how much time was actually spent at the PS max.

With EPAP max at 10 and PS max at 7 that means the max IPAP is 17....and per the 99.5% statistic you probably don't hit that very often, if at all.

With the data available we really can't say that you don't need the range in PS to deal with centrals...if you are having very many....and we can't say that you do need the range either. We also don't know exactly why your doctor prescribed this machine.

Do you happen to have a regular cpap mode available with this machine? If you do you could maybe try regular cpap mode to give you a sort of idea what would happen if the PS range and auto adjusting was taken out of the picture.
Regular ASV mode would fix EPAP but still allow for the PS range.
Just tossing out ideas that you could try with this current machine to maybe help out with your thoughts on using a regular apap machine without buying one.

I can't say for sure based on what we can see if you could get by with a regular machine or not.
Can't tell for sure just how many centrals the machine is reacting to. It's reacting to some but the problem with centrals is not from "some" here and there but instead from a lot of centrals. It's normal for everyone to have a central pop up here and there and they don't necessarily need any treatment.

Now you do have the option to maybe buy a used machine and give it a try and see how it works for you and if it doesn't work out so great you can always sell it and probably get your money back.

At this point...based on data available and understanding it is limited for what we were wanting...I can only say "maybe" you could do what you are thinking about doing. Sorry, I wish I could be more definitive but I can't without having more information.