Deceptive Return Policy?

SleepyScot · Post by **SleepyScot** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:31 am

I was looking into purchasing a new mask (Mirage Activa) and was worried about the new ResMed pricing. I know that CPAP.COM sells them for less than other sites, but then again they're not an approved ResMed provider which worries me. Does anyone know what that means or how it will affect warranties?

I was thinking of going with ApneaTherapy.com since they have a "100% Money Back Guarantee" policy. But then I read the policy! It says...

"No other online CPAP provider can boast this. Shop with the satisfaction knowing all our products are backed by a 100% money back gurantee. If you are not completely satisfied with your purchase we will issue you a full refund."

but then it goes on to say...

"We will accept returns on merchandise we sell that has manufacturing defects @ 100%. Please contact us for RMA # and return instructions. We accept the return of items within 24 hours of delivery, and we will credit the customer the purchase price minus 15% restocking. Shipping costs are not refundable. Masks - Due to the nature of these products we can not accept opened or used products for return. Please make careful selection."

I've had to chop out some non-essential bits there but you can read the whole policy on their site. To me that sounds like exactly the same policy as everyone else's. As in they'll warranty against manufacturer's defects, but if the mask design turns out to not work for me then I'm out of luck.

Has anyone dealt with ApneaTherapy? Is their policy really "100% Money Back Guarantee" or is it really just deceptive advertising in the hopes that I'll buy?

PS - I'm using a Comfort Gel now. What are your thoughts on the Activa?

Offerocker · Post by **Offerocker** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:13 am

SleepyScot wrote:I was looking into purchasing a new mask (Mirage Activa) and was worried about the new ResMed pricing. I know that CPAP.COM sells them for less than other sites, but then again they're not an approved ResMed provider which worries me. Does anyone know what that means or how it will affect warranties?

PS - I'm using a Comfort Gel now. What are your thoughts on the Activa?

I would double-check with cpap.com on your questions; they are VERY helpful, and don't double-speak either.

About the Activa: It is my 5th mask! I love it! I had trouble with others giving me a good seal without leaks. I am a side-sleeper. The Activa sort of 'sucks itself onto your face' gently. I have not awakened once with this mask. The straps are comfortable, and need not be tight at all. I wish I'd been aware of it and its features earlier on. It does not have the terrific visibility of the Comfort Lite 2 (my alternate), but the fact that it never leaks for me is well-worth anything else.

rustynail · Post by **rustynail** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:20 am

Hi SleepyScot!

I don't live in the States and have therefor had no normal dealings with any of the providers there but it appears to me, after reading the policy..... nope, you will not get all your money back.

If I am understanding what I am reading here... even if you somehow manage to get your item(s) repackaged and returned to them within only 24hours they will be deducting 15% and you are stuck with the shipping costs (both ways, I presume). They also stated that you would be 'credited,' not refunded, which does not sound like '100% Money Back' to me at all....

I am sure that there are others here who can give you better information and or exchange their first-hand experiences with you. Hope whatever you decide works well for you.

Tricia: who finds that 'presuming' works better for her than 'assuming'

bdp522 · Post by **bdp522** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:37 am

Cpap.com offers return insurance on this item. Check this link for details;

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/insura ... ctiva.html

Brenda

Vader · Post by **Vader** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:53 am

I don't think there's anything deceptive about it, but the best thing to do, would be to actually CALL cpap.com at their toll free number. I'm sure they will be glad to fully explain any questions you might have.

1-800-356-5221

mattman · Post by **mattman** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:11 am

Without taking anything away from the owners of this site, I do personally feel this is one area where a brick & mortar DME provider can provide a service that the online companies such as this simply cannot.

If you check with your DME provider they should have several masks available for you to try on and see how they feel. They may even have loaner masks that they can let you take home and check out.

If you are wanting to change to a whole different type of mask I would urge you to try that route before spending the money on a mask even with buying the extra return policy.

mattman

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:36 am

I would not trust any company that gives a 24 hour turnaround time on a return. Totally unrealistic - sounds like an escape clause to me. And sounds like the company is hoping for gullible buyers who believe the hype and don't demand the fine print bear it out.

Additionally, it may not be uncommon policy on the shipping cost, but I believe return of a defective or not-as-ordered item should not bear one cent of extra cost to the buyer. The inconvenience is already more than enough. Wrong choices, didn't work out, changed my mind - yes, buyer should bear the unfortunate expense of postage to return and a possibly SMALL restock fee. Some companies factor returns into their pricing structure as a part of doing business. Others cover it by return fees. Then there are those who use their shipping policies as part of their business plan, their moneymaker.

Beware the fine print. But whether a policy seems good or fair, if they said it and the buyer didn't read it with a discriminating eye, just another tough lesson. Glad you were reading, SleepyScot.
Kathy

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:24 am

SleepyScot wrote:I know that CPAP.COM sells them for less than other sites, but then again they're not an approved ResMed provider which worries me.

I'm curious as to how you came to this conclusion.

I've read where lots of people have commented that if they buy a mask from a "bricks & mortar" DME, they don't get to return or exchange it if it doesn't work out. In other words.....You wear it, you own it.
That's why it's so essential that people give LOTS OF THOUGHT to what will work for them BEFORE they buy or order one......regardless of who you get it from.

The following is the policies for CPAP.COM.

Den (not an employee of CPAP.COM)

Return Policy

We will accept returns on merchandise we sell that has manufacturing defects.

We accept the return of unopened items and will credit the customer the purchase price minus 15% restocking. Shipping costs are not refundable.

Unfortunately, we cannot accept returns on items that have been opened or used. To avoid this, we make every effort to help you be sure of sizes and features of items prior to purchase. Please call us if you have any doubt or question about your order.

A special note about masks: Mask sizes vary, even between the different models by the same manufacturer. Just because you wear a medium mask in one model, do not assume you wear a medium in another. Check with us to be sure!

If the product you purchased has defective materials and/or workmanship please contact us for trouble shooting and a receipt for return authorization.

Returned items should be sent after receiving authorization along with a written explanation to:

ATTN CPAP.com Returns (Your RMA #)
4023 Greenbriar Drive
Missouri City, TX 77459
USA

Return Insurance Policy

The spirit and intention of this policy is to allow CPAP users a more cost effective way to determine which CPAP equipment best meets their needs. We will act in good faith to maintain this progressive service by strictly enforcing its policies and guidelines. We reserve the right to refuse to extend the return insurance option to anyone we judge to be abusing it.

The purchase of return insurance allows the purchaser to return the item to CPAP.com within 30 days of the date we shipped the product to the purchaser for a full refund of the product's purchase price less shipping. Return insurance is purchased on a by product basis. It covers the item purchased with the return insurance option only and does not include other items in the purchaser's order.

The 30 day refund window is counted from the day CPAP.com ships the product to the purchaser until the time the purchaser ships the product back to CPAP.com. Transit time is counted. This allows us to keep administrative costs, and thus return insurance costs, low as our system contains shipped dates but not delivery dates.

CPAP.com does not offer return insurance on all products. CPAP.com will honor all purchased return insurance options but reserves the right to add or remove return insurance from any product at any time. The CPAP.com Return Policy governs all items purchased without return insurance.

CPAP.com return insurance rates are non-negotiable, meaning they will not be offered at a discount.

CPAP.com return insurance rates are auto generated by a proprietary and patent pending formula. They change frequently in step with market conditions. CPAP.com does not offer price protection on return insurance rates.

CPAP.com return insurance can be purchased on qualifying products anytime before the order ships. It can not be purchased after that time.

Krelvin · Post by **Krelvin** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:04 pm

mattman wrote:Without taking anything away from the owners of this site, I do personally feel this is one area where a brick & mortar DME provider can provide a service that the online companies such as this simply cannot.

If you check with your DME provider they should have several masks available for you to try on and see how they feel. They may even have loaner masks that they can let you take home and check out.

Wont work with Apria where I'm located... They only carried 1 full face mask when I was fitted. Anything else had to be ordered and delivered. No trials.

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:30 pm

mattman wrote:Without taking anything away from the owners of this site, I do personally feel this is one area where a brick & mortar DME provider can provide a service that the online companies such as this simply cannot.

If you check with your DME provider they should have several masks available for you to try on and see how they feel. They may even have loaner masks that they can let you take home and check out.

If you are wanting to change to a whole different type of mask I would urge you to try that route before spending the money on a mask even with buying the extra return policy.

mattman

When they charge you 2-3 times more than what you can buy it for online, they can afford to have several sitting around for sizing.

All you have to do if you are unsure about a size is call ahead and get the right size so you don't have to return anything.

KimberlyinMN · Post by **KimberlyinMN** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:20 pm

My "brick and mortar" DME won't take returns either. It is an FDA regulation (or at least that is what I was told). Once a mask is opened and/or used, it is yours.

Kimberly

Vader · Post by **Vader** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:31 pm

My DME lets me try as many different masks as I want,(one at a time) as long as each one is returned within 7 days.

mattman · Post by **mattman** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:02 pm

KimberlyinMN wrote:My "brick and mortar" DME won't take returns either. It is an FDA regulation (or at least that is what I was told). Once a mask is opened and/or used, it is yours.

Kimberly

This is correct. There are some ways around it and that's where the variance comes in.

Strictly speaking anything marked as 'Single Patient Use' - which means nearly everything - cannot be returned at all according to the FDA.

What we CAN do to bend the rules is keep some loaners around (Usually product that we've opened and written off) which we can let people try, play with or even take home. If they like it then we give them a brand new one and take the loaner back. It's treading on thin ice but you basically HAVE to do this just to take care of someone.

There are also times when you can give someone a brand new item to take home. If they like it, you bill for it. If they don't, then you just take it back without saying anything and give them something else. The one you take back you either throw away or keep around for the next person.

You can pretty easily see where the problems can arise. You loan someone a UMFF. They didn't like it, so they bring back to you. You clean it all down with disinfectent. Now you don't want to go nuts with the ultra-high strength stuff since it obviously will leave a strong odor. So you use the weaker stuff. You happen to give it to someone else the same day. Unfortunately, what you didn't know was that the first patient just went to see thier sick grandfather at the nursing home and picked up a nice case of tuberculosis. Now your second patient is obviously going to contract it as well.
It's a tough fine line and I know more than 1 company who has gotten hard-core burned because of it.
Add in the massively lawsuit-happy society we live in and it becomes even easier to see why there aren't a lot of places willing to go too far out on a limb with returns and loaners.

mattman

oldgearhead · Post by **oldgearhead** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:04 pm

The mask maker usually includes in the mask manual a section titled:
Institutional Applications. This information spells out a procedure for cleaning a mask that will be used on more than one person.

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): DME

mattman · Post by **mattman** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:25 pm

Oh sure. There are certainly many ways to go about cleaning any product for use by more than one patient. We have to do it all the time for wheelchairs, bed frames, all the oxygen tanks and everything else.

Two primary problems with that in this case:

1) The most common accepted method for institutional multi-patient use is a 15-30 minute soak in a product such as Madacite or Citriguard. Works great. Kills everything. Problem is you won't make it 10 minutes with something like a CPAP mask after it's been through this process. Think of how a hospital smells. Now stick that on your face with forced air coming through it.

2) The FDA is the one that states these have to be single patient use. So any "commonly accepted sterilzation method" doesn't matter. If the FDA finds out you something marked as 'Single Patient Use' was placed in a patients hand after it had already been used they WILL in the best case slap you with a hefty fine and in the worst case flat-out shut your business down.

So it's back to walking the fine line between trying to help people and trying not to get burned.

mattman

Deceptive Return Policy?

Deceptive Return Policy?

Re: Deceptive Return Policy?

Re: Deceptive Return Policy?

Money back

Re: Deceptive Return Policy?