CPAP Battery Knockoff?

[JohnO]

I've purchased one of these batteries from BestCPAPPrice.com and am very, very pleased with the battery, as well as the service from the folks at BestCPAPPrice.com. They even telephoned me to ensure they sent along the correct power tip for the PRS1 Series 60. I purchased mine based on recommendations from other cpaptalk members, and continue to recommend the battery and the vendor.

John

[jscholz]

I have been very pleased with the Owell Industries 12-266 battery I purchased in 2010 from bestcpapprice.com. I can't say I am techie enough to know the particulars of how it is made and what it is composed of, but its weight is close to the advertised weight if not exactly on and it has dependably given me all the advertised hours when I've used it on planes, trains, automobiles, boats, backpacking and camping. While it is not inexpensive, its size allows for independence and ability to maintain an active outdoor and traveling lifestyle that a marine battery or the Respironics battery would not provide me.

[M'ohms]

I, too, have purchased this same battery from the same company, and I also received a phone call prior to shipping that explained the battery, it's use and care, and the shipment of the specific PR power supply. I have been very pleased with the service and the product!

[NeedHelp2]

I don't see any evidence of fraud here. Battery weighs more than posted... specs on the site are wrong, your scale isn't calibrated, you're weighing the battery AND enclosure.

If you're going to jump to conclusions about the battery chemistry of the one you got, why can't be it be nickel cadmium or LiFePo?

What it's labelled is not what's pictured. It's china. This happens all the time. Chances are the product is sold under a number of names, whoever ordered the most quantity got to decide what's silk screened... or they tried to make it seem like a 'bold new product!' or that's just how Chinese manufacture rolls.

Plenty of non-destructive methods you could use to determine the chemistry. Probably the simplest of which would be noting the charge behavior of the battery. NiMh and Lithium ion charge completely differently. You might also try looking at the full to depleted voltage curve. There may be externally visible divisions of cells (you'll have less cells with Lithium ion). You might study the differences in temperature performance and note if your pack coincides with NiMh behavior.

Dunno, seems like there's a lot of speculation and nothing that would even constitute a noteworthy anecdote.

Sorry, you are wrong.

[Guest]

Well that's a kicker isn't it?

Customer isn't happy with product, explains that to vendor. Vendor gets passive-aggressive to the point they publish the entire email thread, which by the way is modified somewhat.

While I am glad there are some happy customers here, a more professional route for the seller would be, "I'm sorry you feel that way, we'll do what we can to ensure you are satisfied with us." Rather than insulting me in an email and then going on the offensive by publishing the entire email. Their lack of professionalism makes it seem that this is their first unhappy customer and they are more interested in investing LARGE amounts of time poking me in the eye publically. What a crock of sh@.

Here's what I've noticed, a lot of cpap companies seem to be shooting fish in a barrel because they know most of their customers are middle-aged to elderly and don't have the wherewithal or energy to complain. So corners are cut and nobody cares.

I want to know why this battery weighs more than advertised.

I want to know why the labelling has changed and has had the Li-Ion taken off the label.

Chinese aren't stupid, they are going to use every angle they can to sell a battery, what sort of company would make the decision to say "Hey let's take off Li-Ion. Something reeks to high heaven besides the customer service.

And by the way, most of the posters who said everything was great are talking about experiences that didn't involve having to get a resolution, you just bought something and then were done. I'm not happy and this is how they deal with customers who are smart and question wonky products.

[archangle]

I am referring to lithium polymer batteries, which have been documented to be less stable.

It's a bit of a generalization, but most of the stuff I've read implies that lithium polymer batteries are less prone to fire or explosion than lithium ion.

[chunkyfrog]

Well, I was told this by an electrical engineer, who is into robotics and RC helicopters.
Maybe he was all wet.

[idamtnboy]

Well that's a kicker isn't it?

Customer isn't happy with product, explains that to vendor. Vendor gets passive-aggressive to the point they publish the entire email thread, which by the way is modified somewhat.

Your emails to them, after the first one, are somewhat combative. 15% restocking fee is quite common if the product is not defective and thus replaced. And you haven't really offered up credible hard evidence to substantiate your claim the battery is not as advertised, except for weight which is probably an error in the product description. I've seen errors in product descriptions for American made products sold by American retailers.

The one big problem with American companies buying from China is that often the item being sold is from a single huge production run, and when that run is sold, there are no more. Often, there are no spare parts even produced. When it breaks you replace it. Examples are light fixtures, budget priced mowers, cell phones, and on and on. Good luck finding a replacement globe for a Chinese made light fixture you bought from Lowes or Home Depot a few years earlier. By and large China is in the business of one-time batch manufacturing, not long term production runs with periodic product upgrades. Consumers, on the whole, have little to complain about when they go for cheap, buy Chinese, and get something less than they expected.

[Fizzled]

I don't see any evidence of fraud here. Battery weighs more than posted... specs on the site are wrong, your scale isn't calibrated, you're weighing the battery AND enclosure.

If you're going to jump to conclusions about the battery chemistry of the one you got, why can't be it be nickel cadmium or LiFePo?

What it's labelled is not what's pictured. It's china. This happens all the time. Chances are the product is sold under a number of names, whoever ordered the most quantity got to decide what's silk screened... or they tried to make it seem like a 'bold new product!' or that's just how Chinese manufacture rolls.

Plenty of non-destructive methods you could use to determine the chemistry. Probably the simplest of which would be noting the charge behavior of the battery. NiMh and Lithium ion charge completely differently. You might also try looking at the full to depleted voltage curve. There may be externally visible divisions of cells (you'll have less cells with Lithium ion). You might study the differences in temperature performance and note if your pack coincides with NiMh behavior.

Dunno, seems like there's a lot of speculation and nothing that would even constitute a noteworthy anecdote.

Sorry, you are wrong.

Do you care to elaborate or are you a politician?

[Wildstar]

Well that's a kicker isn't it?

Customer isn't happy with product, explains that to vendor. Vendor gets passive-aggressive to the point they publish the entire email thread, which by the way is modified somewhat.

Your emails to them, after the first one, are somewhat combative. 15% restocking fee is quite common if the product is not defective and thus replaced. And you haven't really offered up credible hard evidence to substantiate your claim the battery is not as advertised, except for weight which is probably an error in the product description. I've seen errors in product descriptions for American made products sold by American retailers.

The weight is one part of it. What makes me not trust it is that someone in China made the decision to take off a major selling point of the battery. Then the weight goes up 1.1 lbs.

So if you order a pair of shoes from say amazon or zappos, a blue pair of nikes and they arrive without the swoosh and they were made out of a heavier material, would that be ok? Would it be ok if your ordered a set of Polk speakers and there was no Polk logo and the speakers were lighter? Of course not! You're going to instantly think knock-off. No question. To even say that a person should be charged full price for a mis-marked product is ludicrous! To even suggest that such a consumer would have to do work to prove the item isn't really a Nike or a Polk is bordering insanity.

The fact of the matter is, irregardless of proof, the item I received was not what was pictured, and it was not within the specifications, and that makes it NOT OK.

The company has recently changed their tune but insists that the product could have never been used, which it hasn't. But they still want to charge me for them sending me out a product that was not as advertised. Unbelievable.

[remstarcpap]

I think this is quite simple. The product was misadvertised, and the weight of the actual product and the advertised product were different by a sizable percentage. Refund his money, including shipping, no restock fee, and move on! If they don't do it, document the disparity, and do a chargeback on your credit card, and insist they send you a prepaid return label. I wouldn't waste any more breathe on this. But do double check that you are using a gram scale and that the weight is actually wrong.

[BestCPAPprice]

To update this thread, the most recent shipment of batteries that we received from Owell now carry a label stating that they are Lithium Polymer construction. We offered to exchange one of these new batteries for the unit that was shipped to the original poster of this thread, but have not yet heard back from him. We also offered to lower the restocking fee to 10% if he wants to return the original battery. I have traded some emails with our correspondent at Owell about the construction of the batteries, and she assures us that they are NOT Nickel Metal Halide, but are in fact Lithium Polymer construction. She did send some pictures to illustrate the difference in appearance between the two types of cells, and I went ahead and opened up the case on an old battery that had been returned to us with a circuit board problem. I have attached a picture of the battery, and the construction of the cells definitely resembles what a Lithium Polymer cell should look like. Additionally, I obtained a copy of the MSDS stating the makeup of the batteries, which states the Lithium content. Hopefully this will clear up any confusion about the construction of these units. If anyone needs any further clarification, please let me know.

Here is a picture of one of the new batteries showing the label that Owell is now installing on them:



Here is a shot of the inside of one of the battery packs showing the Lithium Polymer cells inside:



Please let me know if anyone has any questions about the batteries.

[NeedHelp2]

I think this is quite simple. The product was misadvertised, and the weight of the actual product and the advertised product were different by a sizable percentage. Refund his money, including shipping, no restock fee, and move on! If they don't do it, document the disparity, and do a chargeback on your credit card, and insist they send you a prepaid return label. I wouldn't waste any more breathe on this. But do double check that you are using a gram scale and that the weight is actually wrong.

Well said. I agree. Vendor is making way too big a deal out of this.

[oak]

Well said +1. I cant believe vendor is still arguing about this with customer. Move on.

[Guest]

Thanks for your patience everyone. Recently lost a close family member and have not been as quick on the emailing as I would like to. Last email from them said it basically had to have zero fingerprints and in pristine condition. Someone has a bone to pick with an assertive customer I guess. Even though I haven't used it I did take it out of its package.

They want to charge me shipping to return it and a restock of 10 percent. Can you believe that?