..and the river flows to the sea.

[carbonman]

IMNSHO, any information a new user needs to be successful
w/cpap is already in the forum. ....BUT, the fleeced sheep and
brain dead newbies need it handed to them....so the same questions
are asked and the same information is disseminated over and over,
year after year.
What problem solution can not be found here w/a little
searching and careful reading?
I guess on a day to day basis, it's the personal interaction of support that
is the most valuable to a newbie.

The same parade of sleep techs, DME reps come and go.
My all time favorite being Straparatus. Now, that was some fun forum time.
I see SleepWell does operate w/a bit more discretion and thicker skin
than many have. ....but, come on....you know what you're up to.
I still find it hard to take advise from someone who doesn't strap
it on every night.......only one person I know of who has
earned that distinction is Dori.

Someone always comes along that doesn't like this or that, so lets moderate.
.....and of course, lets moderate it the way I want it. .....that's when it is
time to get the pop corn ready.....but even that gets boring after a while.

....so, in the end, in the dark of the night, alone, each of us figures it out....
or not....
....and Johnny just keeps paying the electrical bill and .......

The river flows
It flows to the sea
Wherever that river goes
That's where I want to be
--Roger McGuinn

.....thoughts/comments/suggestions

[DreamStalker]

Knowing that we are
Not alone, deprived of air
We seek out our own

[49er]

Great post Carbonman.

Regarding moderation, if people want an apnea board that is moderated, this is your place, http://www.apneasupport.org/. Obviously, the tradeoff is you can't discuss pressure changes, self treatment, or post any commercial links. Your choice.

And someone got permanently banned from http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/ for unintentionally violating a solicitation regulation without any warning. At least the apnea support.org moderators provide them.

49er

IMNSHO, any information a new user needs to be successful
w/cpap is already in the forum. ....BUT, the fleeced sheep and
brain dead newbies need it handed to them....so the same questions
are asked and the same information is disseminated over and over,
year after year.
What problem solution can not be found here w/a little
searching and careful reading?
I guess on a day to day basis, it's the personal interaction of support that
is the most valuable to a newbie.

The same parade of sleep techs, DME reps come and go.
My all time favorite being Straparatus. Now, that was some fun forum time.
I see SleepWell does operate w/a bit more discretion and thicker skin
than many have. ....but, come on....you know what you're up to.
I still find it hard to take advise from someone who doesn't strap
it on every night.......only one person I know of who has
earned that distinction is Dori.

Someone always comes along that doesn't like this or that, so lets moderate.
.....and of course, lets moderate it the way I want it. .....that's when it is
time to get the pop corn ready.....but even that gets boring after a while.

....so, in the end, in the dark of the night, alone, each of us figures it out....
or not....
....and Johnny just keeps paying the electrical bill and .......

The river flows
It flows to the sea
Wherever that river goes
That's where I want to be
--Roger McGuinn

.....thoughts/comments/suggestions

[Drowsy Dancer]

At first, I thought the thread title was inspired by Sholokhov. Oh, look, a bird! [/random]

[chunkyfrog]

Indeed, but a working stiff, with no alphabet soup, pays attention,
actually writes down what he has learned--(wherever he learned it),
hopefully to distribute to those neglected, breathless, wide-awakes, not yet aware of our clan.
Should we descend upon him like a scene from Lord of the Flies,
or realize that there are so many more out there that we cannot hope to reach?
I do not wish those who cannot drink from our cup to receive no sustenance at all, as so many of us did before.
Let those who try, try; for that is a good deal more than many who are entrusted this task.
And thank you, Johnny, for your trust and support.

[khauser]

IMNSHO,

Is that "Not so Honest"? Oh ... HUMBLE! (and yes, I first read it as "honest")

I guess on a day to day basis, it's the personal interaction of support that
is the most valuable to a newbie.

That's exactly it. We could all become search Nazi's, such as I've seen on so many other forums ("Did you search it? The answer is already there!") and I've seen some of that already too. But newbies are looking for FAST answers during a stressful period, and actually, a time when cognitive function is already being stretched, so I think the generally friendly atmosphere here is spot on.

Yes, occasionally an OT post makes me thing we should be more moderated, but that really would be worse in the end.

[chunkyfrog]

Agreed!

[idamtnboy]

What problem solution can not be found here w/a little
searching and careful reading?

There's only one problem with searches. One often has to sort through an entire dump truck load of rocks to find one gem stone. It can be frustrating. But, if a newbie starts by saying I searched and couldn't find, then all is forgiven!

[kaiasgram]

What problem solution can not be found here w/a little
searching and careful reading?

There's only one problem with searches. One often has to sort through an entire dump truck load of rocks to find one gem stone. It can be frustrating. But, if a newbie starts by saying I searched and couldn't find, then all is forgiven!

Also, a brand new newbie doesn't always know what words to put in the search box to get the info they need. Before we became CPAP-wise, would we have known to search using terms like aerophagia, rainout, bilevel, interface, pressure pulse, or nares ( Yeah, I hadn't heard the term nares before!). I've found the search box to be more helpful to me now that I'm more knowledgeable and experienced and know what terms to put in the search box to get to the info quickly.

[ems]

There will always be new people who want their questions answered... along with a little (sometimes a lot) TLC. Sometimes doing a search just doesn't do it. They want a direct answer from a knowledgeable person on the forum. We were all there at some point. No one has to respond... but if you choose to, be kind.

[cosmo]

viewtopic/t88289/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40118&p=794382

Most people on here are old timers. So I give them a free pass

[mollete]

This is certainly an issue that sparks robust debate and evokes gut-wrenching emotion.

Will The Carpetbagger's pamphlet offer help to some?

Obviously, since he's stealing other people's ideas and life experiences. But his information is readily available from free sources. There's no mystery as to how technically one achieves success in this therapy.

Should he be allowed to make a profit from other people's hard work?

"IMHO", I would say absolutely not. I believe it is highly offensive to those who devote their time, money and energy to helping others freely, in this free forum to have a sleazeball profiteer like that come in and reap the benefits of other people's work.

However, keeping things in perspective and believing in The Big Scheme of Things, that LSOS will eventually have to pay for his sins, so I would imagine there's going to be considerable Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth in that boy's life (or afterwards).

However2, I agree completely that

... it's the personal interaction of support that
is the most valuable to a newbie.

After they have bought and read the pamphlets and/or lurked around searching for answers, it will the personalized support that they receive when they post and start a thread.

Arguably, I would say that this support will take 4 +/- 2 hours of actual, active support.

That said, this number is completely arbitrary and dependent upon a zillion factors. For instance, a middle-aged guy with AHI 80 who hasn't seen a lick of REM in 20 years would be fine if you sent him home with a spackle bucket and told him to fill it up with water and stick his head in 10 cm deep. OTOH, a perimenopausal lady with UARS and comorbid insomnia might need continual help for like forever. And that help on some days could simply be Dori or Pugzoid saying "I know, I understand".

And no MF pamphlet can offer that.

[newsnore]

Sometimes it is good to ask a question again - maybe a different/new perspective comes out of it. Also with time there are advances and new technology so asking the same question keeps it all alive and fresh.

[pandatx]

All I can say is thank God for the people (including you Carbonman) who took the time to answer my "same old" questions here. This is all a bit confusing, overwhelming, frustrating. I wouldn't have known the right things to search for necessarily. And the support and encouragment has meant as much to me as the information. So yeah, I'd fall into the "needs TLC" catagory, but I think I have lots to offer in return for a little TLC actually.

I know that feeling of "here we go again" but for the person asking it is the first time for them. Having someone say "hang in there" or "I know how to help with that" is invaluable when you are feeling a bit lost. And all the crap with my DME. I might not have followed through so rigorously (because I wouldn't have known what to do or say) and I wouldn't have gotten the machine I really needed or my prescription or my records (hopefully on that one, still waiting), if I hadn't had people who took a personal interest and helped me directly. Not me doing a search, but me feeling the people behind it.

xoxo

[carbonman]

This is all a bit confusing, overwhelming, frustrating. xoxo

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test.
If the machine produces tranquility it's right.
If it disturbs you it's wrong
until either
the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

I know you are facing many challenges right now.
I am curious if you have delved into Krakow's book.
Although the work presented in his book is the most difficult,
it may provide you a clearer path or a means to find the path.
I'll see you on the road.