Side Effect, Mid-Back Pain

[PaulB1979_CANADA]

Hi everyone. I was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea back in November 2012. I have since been using an AutoCpap machine. I have the Resmed S9 AutoSet with H5i and the Swift FX mask.
It has been going pretty well, sleeping pretty good, but I sometimes get a certain side effect from the treatment. I just want to know I'm not alone, and If there is something that can be done. It has only been like this since the treatment. Can't seem to find a resolution to this problem. Some people tell me I got to live with it.

Major problem: 90% of the time, I wake up after only a few hours of sleep, with major mid-back pain. Sometimes it's so bad, I have problems getting up, walking, breathing. It goes away after an hour or so, then I go back to bed and when I wake up in the morning, here we go again, but its even worse. Feels like sometime hit me in the middle of the back with a baseball bat, or I got hit by a freight train.. stabbing pain. So annoying..

Anyone else have this problem?

Paul

[khauser]

Hi Paul,
I've never heard of that being associated with CPAP therapy. Not that I have a TON of experience, but I will be surprised if there's a relationship.

HOWEVER, I do see how being on CPAP therapy could CHANGE the way one sleeps, and if you were already pre-disposed to back problems it could certainly aggravate it.

If you feel this in the mid back area, say around where your elbows are, it's probably muscle strain. Any lower and I would be concerned about kidney issues (and that's worth mentioning to the doctor if you are at all unsure). The higher the more likely it is muscle related, IMO.

So are you sleeping in a different position???

[PaulB1979_CANADA]

Hi Paul,
I've never heard of that being associated with CPAP therapy. Not that I have a TON of experience, but I will be surprised if there's a relationship.

HOWEVER, I do see how being on CPAP therapy could CHANGE the way one sleeps, and if you were already pre-disposed to back problems it could certainly aggravate it.

If you feel this in the mid back area, say around where your elbows are, it's probably muscle strain. Any lower and I would be concerned about kidney issues (and that's worth mentioning to the doctor if you are at all unsure). The higher the more likely it is muscle related, IMO.

So are you sleeping in a different position???

Actually, my wife tells me that I don't move much. I go to sleep on my back and I wake up the same way. I starting wondering If this is why I get the back pain. The pain is located just below the rib cage, but in the back, center. Near the spine. I never had this problem before, only began after I started CPAP. Some say before CPAP, we use to move alot in bed, side to side then on our backs, now I do not move. Makes me wonder.......

[PaulB1979_CANADA]

I think its muscular too, maybe from not moving much, or the body isn't used to breathing so deeply and well all night long and this is the outcome. Like when we do some hard work and some of our muscles that haven't been used in a while just wake up and say owwwwww..

[morrigan]

Paul, I had the same problem in the same area. In the beginning, it was hard for me to wear the cpap for long periods of time. i would wake up after a few hours with that awful back pain, take off the mask and go back to sleep and wake up several hours later with no back pain. Docs were puzzled and said apnea had nothing to do with it.

I tried going to a chiropractor but that didn't help. Finally, after about a 18 months I went to a massage therapist and the problem was solved.

As far as I can tell, I had pulled a muscle in my back out of place and the massage therapist pushed it back into position ( I had told her about my symptoms so she knew where to concentrate ). Now I know where to push that muscle back to if I feel it start to pop out again. I still wake up with some muscular back pain that goes away after I am upright for a few minutes, but it is nowhere near as severe.

[Julie]

You can't assume everything that goes wrong is related to Cpap, coincidences do happen. Have you considered a new mattress? Getting referred to a physiotherapist? Getting x-rays (or MRI)?

[Kenwood]

I've only been on CPAP for about six weeks now. Life long stomach sleeper in a semi-falcon position. Since starting CPAP my lower-back has been killing me. Can only stand and walk for a little bit before the pain is so bad I have to sit down. Can'y even stand to cook anymore. Been seeing my Chiro a couple times a week. Had a two hour back massage. Bought a buckwheat pillow. Take Aleve. Tried sleeping on my back for several days to help relief the pressure. No improvement yet. I feel like such an idiot when people ask how you hurt your back....and you say "sleeping"

[Sheriff Buford]

Surprisingly, this is not all that unusual. I had the same issues with my back when I started cpap therapy. I had 3 back surgeries, and the only back issues I had were occasional soreness from either working on the car or chasing a suspect and making unusual moves trying to de-mobilize him (ie: beating the crap outta' him... ). I found that after starting cpap therapy, I was also waking up sore, but it went away after a month or so. I found that I was sleeping in the same position longer and not rolling around in bed. I eventually bought a Temper-pedic mattress with the thought of "enhancing my sleep experience". I figured if I was spending more time in one position, I ought to have a good mattress to support my body. It worked! As much as you may not want to hear this, the soreness is a good thing and probably will go away.

Sheriff

[caffeinatedcfo]

I've read that when in supine position, placing a pillow under your knees helps maintain proper spinal alignment and reduces strain on the lower spine. I don't know if this would help in your situation, but I know that any trigger in your back/spine can refer all over the body.

[Alexyco4]

How bizarre. It's 4 am and I just got out of bed to check if back pains were a side effect of cpaps. My pain stared in my lower back but has radiated to my kidneys and down back of both legs. I have been trying to walk it off and it is helping some but it's been an hour and the pain is not gone. This is my second night with the cpap and an interesting note is I also have the ResMed S9 series. I am definitely calling my doctor today.

[jdr999]

I'm not going to lie -- I did finally break down and buy the Medcline sleep system. I need to sleep on my side due to severe OSA and needed elevation for my crappy gerd.

Perviously I was sleeping in exactly this position but using a typical wedge, pillows, and a cushion between my knees. I just couldn't get it right. The normal wedge wasn't comfortable and never fit me properly. My arm always fell asleep because I was laying directly on it as well as my shoulder -- not fun. And I couldn't find anything comfortable to place between my knees - everything was either too big or too small.

This system actually has a gap between the two cushions where I can place my arm and shoulder -- that's one of the biggest reasons I tried it. It also has a candy cane-like body pillow that wraps around you to help keep you on your side. You can also comfortably place it between your legs. I can't yet say if it helps my gerd, but it is very comfortable.

No affiliation with the company (and I'm almost ashamed at how much it costs!) but it really does exactly what I was looking for quite well. So far it's the best solution I've found as it puts absolutely no pressure on my arm or shoulder while sleeping on my side..

[rizzorr]

I have had the same problem for three years and I have been on any sleep apnea treatment....
It is neurological..... I know mine is from budges I have in the top of my neck..................
If I am in the same position too long unaligned is when I wake up in pain....
I also have serious numbing problems everywhere. There are other forums on this and even a name.
You just have to search for it. Hope this helps ..

[jazzer4]

Paul sorry your back hurts.
While reading your post, first I thought of Aerophagia (swallowing air).
For me that air can be anywhere in my body and it hurts.
Once it was in my chest and I thought I was having a heart attack.
Turning my pressure down a bit keeps it away for me.

I know Aerophagia is air in the stomach, but I think mine escapes

Hope you get it figured out.

[bipap guy]

Actually the pain in the back makes sense to me. I sleep with a bi-pap machine and I have the same occurrences in the mid-back and in the left rib-cage.

This is what I suspect is happening. Your intercostal muscles are weakening over time. The intercostal muscles make up the wall of the chest & back and are located between the ribs. There function is to expand and contract the chest and back as you breathe. You can actually see them on a well developed body builder along the rib cage. Normally these muscled get exercised 24 hours a day so they stay in superb condition. If you sleep with a c-pap {air in} then for 8 hour a night these muscles do not have to work as you breathe in because the machine is forcing them out. If you breathe with a bi-pap it will be worst because the muscles do not have to work for either inhalation or exhalation. Over time the muscles start to atrophy. So your body {torso} becomes de-conditioned as all muscles do the less they are used. I suspect some aspect of your life is straining or stretching these now de-conditioned muscles and causing your pain probably in a rear intercostal muscle on one of the lower ribs bones probably the 10th or 11th rib.

My suggestion would be to see a psychiatrist {musculoskeletal physician} it could actually be movements made in your sleep or the way you are sleeping could be an aggravating factor. Once an intercostal muscle is strained it becomes inflamed exacerbating the condition because you now are dealing with muscular strain/sprain and inflamation.

The longer you use the c or bi-pap the more de-conditioned the intercostals will become. Staying in water is an excellent way to exercise the intercostal because your back & rib cage have to expand against the water pressure thereby exercising the torso. The water needs to be at least chest high. Another thing you may try is taking up a wind musical instrument, trumpet, trombone, tuba, clarinet, saxophone, flute, basically anything that you blow into. As your diaphragm gets stronger from the use of wind in practicing your music so will you intercostals between the ribs along with improved pulmonary function over the long run to offset the atrophy caused from the cpap or bi-pap.

I would very much like to hear from you as to how this works out? Best wishes & good Luck!
Michael

[archangle]

Be careful to not assume everything is due to apnea or CPAP. Us apneacs suffer from the same problems as normal humans.

It could even be something like heart problems.

Consider what you would do for such pain if you weren't a PAPer.

Have you asked your doctor? It could be something with the kidneys. Urination tends to change with CPAP, but I haven't heard of that causing kidney problems.