Is it safe to tape mouth to prevent mouth leaks?

[Sireneh]

Now, I know that this is not a direct comparison, but I do know that it is impossible to fall asleep in the bathtub and drown. You'd wake up when your 02 levels got low enough.

[LinkC]

I do know that it is impossible to fall asleep in the bathtub and drown.

And you know this HOW? (Sounds like a good story...)

[archangle]

All masks and nasal rigs have vents and reliefs.

WRONG!!! DANGEROUS ADVICE!!!!

Most nasal masks do NOT have a "relief" valve.

There are vent holes, but the vent holes will only pass a significant amount of air if there is a pressure difference between the inside and outside of the mask. When your CPAP machine shuts down, exhaled air will pass down the hose, through the humidifier and machine and out through the air intake filters for the machine. There will not be much pressure or vacuum in the mask to make the vent holes work.

There will be a small amount of air that goes in and out through the vents because there's some air drag going through the machine, but it's not much. There will be a small amount of fresh oxygen that slowly works its way through the machine as you stir up the air breathing in and out, but it won't be much either.

Will you suffocate if your machine goes off and your mouth is taped? I don't really know. You'd have to have the oxygen in your breathed air to get low enough to be dangerous, and you'd have to not wake up enough to take your mask off. Unplug your machine, hold your mouth closed, hook up and breathe for a while with a nasal mask and see what happens. Be sure someone is watching you. It's possible to pass out without realizing it and suffocate.

Even if you don't die if power goes out, you will be oxygen deprived with whatever health effects or risk of heart attack, etc. this can cause.

I do know that all full face masks and oral masks are required to have relief vents because of this problem. A full face or oral mask hooked up to a turned off CPAP machine will not be much different from sleeping without a mask.

[archangle]

Now, I know that this is not a direct comparison, but I do know that it is impossible to fall asleep in the bathtub and drown. You'd wake up when your 02 levels got low enough.

Even if it's true, you will probably wake up when you start getting water into your nose, windpipe, and lungs no matter what your O2 levels are. Ever get a small amount of water down the wrong way when drinking water and notice the way your body reacts?

I know that "confined" spaces, such as underground utility tunnels are a serious hazard in industrial settings. If a worker goes into such a space, the oxygen levels can drop over time as they breathe or even be low to start with because the air is stagnant. Workers exposed to confined spaces may gradually get sleepy or disoriented and pass out without ever realizing that anything is wrong. It's a fairly common cause of industrial deaths.

We tend to confuse suffocation due to low O2/high CO2 with suffocation due to no airflow. We tend to have a strong reaction to blocked airflow. Our lungs strain to get air. People rarely suffocate and completely die due to sleep apnea, it's heart attacks and long term health effects that get you.

When you get low O2 in the air, the process of mechanically breathing air somewhat satisfies our breathing reflex. If your airflow is blocked, the O2 level in your blood drops quickly and you react more. With oxygen deprivation, your blood O2 level drops slowly and you don't get as much of a reaction.

Once again, I don't know if there's much risk of you dying from mouth taping / CPAP machine failure. I'm just saying that we shouldn't dismiss the possibility.

[LoQ]

Hello everyone.
I saw some people here they taping their mouth to prevent the leaks from mouth. I doubt is it safe to do that?
If the ventilator stop working for some reason during the night, the user cannot awake and lack of oxygen.......
I don't like my chinstrap beacuse there are always some nights it doesn't work properly. So that I'm thinking about to try the tape. Before I try it, I have to make sure it's safe, even my S9 never stop working but it still has the possibility.
I have also tried several full face masks in local hospital, none of the fits me. Then it's not an option.
I would like to here you guys' opinions about the safety of taping the mouth.

Wish all you guys have good xPAP therapy!

I'm a former nasal mask user and taper. My primary physician expressed concern that if my nose were to become congested at night, I might fail to scratch the tape off. He said the mouth is redundancy for that purpose. I had to agree with that, even though I give it only a small chance of happening. The lack of the safety vent on nasal masks is a far greater concern, and ends up with the same risky situation.

Now I use a full face mask and a little bit of tape, in lieu of a chin strap. I do not tape my mouth shut. I use strips of tape on the sides of my mouth from under my chin up to beside my nose. Take a look at the chin-up strips. I do a modification of that which is a lot cheaper. I find that it pretty much holds my lips together and totally prevents mouth-breathing, but if I want to breathe through my mouth, it's not difficult. And with the paper medical tape I use, with Milk of Magnesia applied to my skin before the tape, it's easy to open my mouth, if I want. The tape pops right off, but is strong enough to hold my mouth closed if my jaw muscles are just relaxing and not forcing my mouth open.

[chunkyfrog]

Whether or not to tape is still a personal choice--usually made against 'official' medical advice.
We here on the forum can only share our experiences.
I tape when wearing the nasal masks--I do not if I have congestion or an upset stomach. (nausea = BAD)
My full-face gel mask has an anti-asphyxia valve--I slept one entire night with the machine off--didn't know until morning.
No bad effects; except for a headache.

[archangle]

The Oracle HC452 Oral CPAP Mask has a separate piece that fits on the hose and provides the vent function. If you try to breathe back into the machine, it blocks airflow and vents your exhaled air into the environment. When you inhale, it will either pull air through the machine or from the environment. In theory, you should be able to put one of these on a nasal mask. In practice, the fittings on the end of the part aren't right to fit inline with a hose.

I think this valve would do the same function if you put it on the mask end of the hose, but the connectors are backwards for that usage. If you put it on the machine end of the hose, it won't help with this problem.

[Kilgore Trout]

All masks and nasal rigs have vents and reliefs.

WRONG!!! DANGEROUS ADVICE!!!!

Agreed -- my DME made it very clear that the CO2 buildup from breathing masked-up without the machine on is far more than the vent in the mask can handle safely.

[Kilgore Trout]

Does mouth taping keep your jaw in place, or is it used to avoid leaks from when your mouth inflates because you moved your tongue?

[rested gal]

Yes, it's worked well for a lot of people. However, suppose 1 of 100 mouth tapers will die per year if they tape their mouth. Doesn't that make it a bad idea?

Well, if you want to pick a "suppose" number out of thin air, we might as well use, "Suppose one out of every ten mouth tapers die per year because they put tape over the mouth." Doesn't that make it an even worse idea? Or, heck, go for the gusto... "Suppose every other..."

Or -- we could go the other direction with "suppose" numbers plucked at random. "Suppose one out of a million..."

Finding a mask that suits is the #1 piece of the puzzle to get in place right (imho) to being able to "do" CPAP effectively and comfortably.

Suppose the dropout rate for people prescribed "CPAP" is 40%.

Suppose the dropouts have a greatly increased risk of heart attack, stroke, vehicle accidents.

Suppose not being able to find a leakproof, comfortable mask is the biggest reason for dropping out.

Suppose a strip of tape solves that.

If a strip of tape lets a person use a mask they would not otherwise be able to use... a mask that lets them actually sleep comfortably while getting effective CPAP therapy... hmmm.

I realize you said this:

Note: I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just pointing out that having a lot of people who do it successfully doesn't mean it's a good idea.

You're right that just because "a lot of people" do something successfully, it doesn't mean it's a good idea. I was just "supposin' ", too.

[chunkyfrog]

If taping really scares you; don't do it.
The rest of us will be just fine.

[BrianR4743]

Well said RG.... it's been a life saver for me. The very minimal risks (IMHO) have been worth the great health benefits I've received.

I need to buy stock in 3M.

[archangle]

Yes, it's worked well for a lot of people. However, suppose 1 of 100 mouth tapers will die per year if they tape their mouth. Doesn't that make it a bad idea?

Well, if you want to pick a "suppose" number out of thin air, we might as well use, "Suppose one out of every ten mouth tapers die per year because they put tape over the mouth." Doesn't that make it an even worse idea? Or, heck, go for the gusto... "Suppose every other..."

Or -- we could go the other direction with "suppose" numbers plucked at random. "Suppose one out of a million..."

Finding a mask that suits is the #1 piece of the puzzle to get in place right (imho) to being able to "do" CPAP effectively and comfortably.

Suppose the dropout rate for people prescribed "CPAP" is 40%.

Suppose the dropouts have a greatly increased risk of heart attack, stroke, vehicle accidents.

Suppose not being able to find a leakproof, comfortable mask is the biggest reason for dropping out.

Suppose a strip of tape solves that.

If a strip of tape lets a person use a mask they would not otherwise be able to use... a mask that lets them actually sleep comfortably while getting effective CPAP therapy... hmmm.

I realize you said this:

Note: I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just pointing out that having a lot of people who do it successfully doesn't mean it's a good idea.

You're right that just because "a lot of people" do something successfully, it doesn't mean it's a good idea. I was just "supposin' ", too.

The important thing is that we should not be telling people something is "safe" because a lot of us have gotten away with it. Especially when the medical "professionals" seem to think it's dangerous.

Most people who don't wear seatbelts will probably never suffer the consequences of not doing so. That doesn't mean we should conclude that seatbelts don't save lives.

If taping kills even a small percentage of the people who do it, we should not be telling people it's safe.

If I couldn't find a better way to prevent mouth breathing, I might very well tape up myself. I would not tell others that it's safe to do so.

[beylow]

hi rosiefrosie. You are lucky that you were able to wake up when the electricity goes down. I'm not sure if I'm able to wake up in that case.
I have seen some posts say that their S9 stop working during the night. It is so dangerous that if I cannot wake up.[/quote]


Try this:

http://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Controls ... B000IF8QDK[/quote]

This seems pretty nice. I should get one. Thanks.

the safety valve is not as good as full face mask. I'm not sure if those small holes can be called safety valve.

They aren't. Those are vents to flush out CO2. Generally speaking, nasal masks don't have or need anti-asphyxiation valves as FF masks do. You will wake up and breathe thru your mouth if the machine stops. Do you have problems with unwanted mouth-breathing?

I have slight sleep paralysis. Before I start CPAP therapy. When the sleep paralysis was happening, I had conscious but feel lack of oxygen and hard to breath. It took lots of effort in order to wake up. Since I start to use CPAP, it only happened once because of the mask leaking.
Let's assume that if the machine stop working, my mouth is taped, there might be sleep paralysis attack me. If I'm failed to wake up, I will be totally screwed. I just don't understand why they don't make safety valve for nasal mask.......

[LinkC]

If taping kills even a small percentage of the people who do it, we should not be telling people it's safe.

Agreed! Let us know when that happens.