FOR SALE: HANS RUDOLPH FFM

[FL andy]

Anyone want to buy a Hans Rudolph 7600 Vmask Series Full Face Mask with Sensa Seal in size extra small?

Warning: You need to measure yourself with the HR caliper to find the correct size for your face. 'Extra small' sounds tiny, but it isn't.

Second warning: This mask was not for me. I echo Masked Ranger's sentiments:

Besides being one of more costly masks on the market... it leaked badly around the nose bridge and the vent holes are very noisy. The head gear is an outdated rat's nest of uncomfortable velcro straps that takes three hands to untangle and impossible get properly adjusted. I contact Han Rudolph to complain... they said my pressures are too high (10/15 is too high??)and I needed a sensa seal to stop the nose area leakage. Ok... I get the nose seal and didn't help.

Third warning: The box says SMALL but on the mask it says EXTRA SMALL. (Not sure if you care, but just so you know.)

Boy, for somebody who's trying to unload a mask, you'd think I wouldn't include all these caveats.... But full disclosure is a good thing. Right?

Neversleeps and Maked Ranger,

Thanks for participating here. And what timing!

The first thing on my agenda for this morning was to order one of those QUALITY, NO LEAK Hans Rudolph masks. Heck with the additional cost. Anything supposedly that good was worth a few extra bucks, right?

When I read that *Hans Rudolph said* that 10/15 was too high a pressure I re-read that several times. My BiPap presure is 16 IPAP and 11 EPAP.

Last week I phoned the manufacturer and it just happened that Mr. K. C. Rupolph asnwered the phone. One of my many questions (I had a list in front of me) was how do your masks handle pressure of 16/11. To the best of my knowledge **he never answered that one**. (But, in interests of full disclosure, I'm in my 70's and my senior moments are getting more frequent).

You guys just saved me a handful of money. Now I have more to spend on those amazing, QUALITY, NO LEAK memory pills I find on the internet.

Thank you Goodman family for this site. And thank you Neversleeps and Masked Ranger and all you y'all others on this site.

Andy

[Severeena]

I raised my starting pressure up to 9, and the highest so far has been 15.

I have had no problems with my mask.

As I have said what works for one may not work for another.

The best way to get the right fit and find out what pressure the mask works best, go to the source. Call the Hans Rudolph people and talk to them.

Please do not bad mouth a mask until you have either tried the mask or gotten information from the manufacturer

[Roger...]

Hello CG,
I have the CD and have almost learned the words by heart.

My problem with the Ultra mask is that in its flattest position, the area along side the nose and mouth won't seal unless the mask is pushing hard against my chin. Because the pressure on the chin is so high, it opens my mouth when I fall asleep and breaks the seal along side the mouth.

My median pressure runs around 13.5 CM. At that pressure the best leak rate this mask promises is in the 40 to 45 CM range. Take a look at the mask’s designed leak rate. This image is from the RESMed manual.
Ultra-Mirage Vent Flow Rate

On the chart I've placed some amber lines to bracket the pressure and the resulting leak values I should expect. In my case the leak rate starts out around 50cm, but when the brain turns off, the leak rate blows past 150cm. With that much of a leak the machine keeps chugging, but the AutoPAP logic thinks the mask is in the wind and stops recording data. The machine also stops being an AutoPAP during those big leaks.

I would love to find a way to make this ultra, or any full face mask work because I like the breathability I get with a full-face mask. While my Activa and Comfort Curve are working as intended, the machine's wind pressure is higher than my lip-seal specification with the brain is off. It really is my brain off lip leak rate that is what is creating the nocturnal motorboat sounds and whistles finding their way into our family's humor tales.

Sharon,
I have the HR Caliper. It is really a nice device. I like it so much that I don't know why all vendors wouldn't use the same tool. This would remove a lot of variability from the process and improve how well the mask is sized and fitted.

I just noticed that NeverSleeps responded. I'll ping her and post more later.

[Severeena]

Roger I have noticed with the Hans Rudolph's headgear the mesh cap, I get a few more L/S than I do with the strap headgear. The mesh headgear is a large and the strap is a small so that may have something to do with it,.

[Roger...]

Sharon,

Do you have a good phone number for HR?

What I have isn't working and they haven't been answering emails.

Thanks,

[Severeena]

Roger, I will PM you with what I have.

[Guest]

Roger... you might try to contact FL andy because he got a hold of them

I changed my opinion of Hans Rudolph - the company. I still don't have the mask (yet) but I certainly will try either the nasal or the full face mask, definitely!

I took Sharon up on her suggestion that I contact the company about my concerns about the reported history of leaks as they appear on this message board.

The pleasant and very knowledgable woman with whom I spoke explained how the company will work with the patient/customer to insure satisfaction in mask fitting. In my experience (I have 7 masks) NO other company is willing to help to the degree Hans Rudolph seems to go.

Just wanted my change of opinion on record for y'all.

The Hans Rudolph Company does deal online directly with customers through two online cpap providers. If you have insurance, it will be less expensive dealing thru a DME than online (as I understand the situation). The company will provide details if you call them.

Andy

[Roger...]

Sharon got the number to me in no time at all. Thanks Sharon!

However, when I called the message says they are closed, but open from 8 to 4 each day. I'll do my best to get to them in the morning so we can bring the question to a close.

[Severeena]

I wish Andy would tell me by PM who the two online companies are.

Roger, No problem glad to be of help.

[Guest]

Sharon,

DONE

Andy

[Masked Ranger]

What torques my jaws (no pun intended) is if HR is such a high quality product that commands top dollar why should I (and other such on this site...) have to call the company to get "add ons" such as do nothing Sensa Seals at $20 a pop for $1.50 worth of material, and new headgear that should have been shipped with the product to begin with. My HR mask is two weeks old and was shipped with the rat's nest net/velcro headgear. Get this... Now I'm told by RH the leakage problem can be corrected by wearing the mask lower on the nose bridge. Sure the leaking was reduced somewhat but is still not acceptable. The tradeoff is the mask pinches off the nose passages... hence, can't breath through the nose. It's self defeating! My F&P 431 FF came with three different size face seals and a very simple one piece set and forget, one snap clip headgear that can be put on in the dark... Try that with HR mask! And was half the price of the HR. Granted, the FP 431 isn't Mr. Perfect and needed some minor tweaking but it allot better than my HR.

[Severeena]

The reason why you contact the company is because none of the people that we talk to know anything about the Hans Rudolph. We have to go over the heads of the DME's to find out what we need to do if we have a problem.

I know it sounds like a pain, but that is the way it works.

Get this, the seals come with it over in Europe, they are a separate item here.

Why? because we are not a demanding people. We need to start demanding something for nothing.

We do pay a lot for this mask, because supply and demand are not there.

We need to develop a supply and demand for this mask.

The Hans Rudolph is not an understood mask. I do not understand why, because it is a very simple mask to use.

[Masked Ranger]

The bottom line is HR is a poorly designed product that doesn't work. It leaks badly and has lousy headgear. All this for over $220... nice. It might make a good "one" bird bath? I'm posting this info just to let consumers know that HR isn't the mother of all masks Severeena keeps touting on this site.

[Guest]

The bottom line is HR is a poorly designed product that doesn't work. It leaks badly and has lousy headgear. All this for over $220... nice. It might make a good "one" bird bath? I'm posting this info just to let consumers know that HR isn't the mother of all masks Severeena keeps touting on this site.

Since I do not yet have a HR mask, I am unable to comment on how they fit. But I can comment on how well the company and its personnel try to help customers get their mask to fit properly. In my experience ONLY, the Hans Rudolph people are far more pleasant and willing to help get a mask to fit than are any of the U.S. manufacturers that I have dealt with.

And regarding the quality and fit of the HR masks, the must be a reason that HR easily lead the European market in sales. The relationship of price and quality should be the same here as over there. Certainly, it is possible they are trying so very hard to satisfy their customers because the Company is attempting to get a stronger foothold in the US. On the other hand, it is possible that is the very reason they are so very successful overseas.

The only conclusion I can come up with, Masked Ranger, is that, for YOU, the HR mask won't work well. And I know, of the seven masks I have bought in the 10 or 11 months I have been on XPAP, ONLY the Activa is comfortable and acceptable in the leak department for ME. We both got stuck with some bad fitting masks, my friend.

Here's hoping you are both more successful in the future. Here's wishing you well.

Andy

[FL andy]

That was me above. Forgot to log in.

Andy