Hans Rudolph FF Problems and Questions

allen · Post by **allen** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:35 am

Thru my DME, I got a Hans Rudolph FF mask yesterday. I was SO excited to use it.

I had a difficult time figuring out how to attach the straps/headgear, but eventually got it. Nothing new about that--I'm not very good at that kind of assembling.

Once I got the headgear attached, I was definitely ready for bed. I'd come in late from work, so it was past my bedtime already.

What a bitter, bitter disappointment. I don't know if the mask size is wrong or what, but it leaks at the upper nose area. Not only leaking, but power leaking: LOUD and strong, steady gusts. Occasionally, the cheek area was leaking and bouncing on my face, making that Ultra Mirage FF "f*rt" sound.

The mask is a medium, the headgear a large.

I've pulled the straps on the upper part of the headgear as tight as I think they'll go--no change in the nose area leak problem.

I did find that if I use my hand to apply pressure to the center of the mask--like in front of my lips--the leaking stops and the mask is beautifully silent. Obviously, though, I can't constantly apply pressure with my hand whilst sleeping.

Since the DME measured me for the mask, I imagine they'll be responsible for ordering a large, if that's what the problem is.

I do like the mask and can tell, from using the hand pressure mentioned above, that this can be my mask of choice. Not the way it is now, though. It was a bad night of trying to sleep.

Any suggestions as to what to do about the mask problem? It feels okay, size wise, until the CPAP comes on and the force of the air begins to propel me towards the heavens. (lol)

Any and all advice warmly welcomed!

Allen
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rbv24 · Post by **rbv24** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:55 am

Allen,

I also had problems with leaks in the upper nose area. I tried adding the Sensa-Seal but that didn't resolved the problem though it might for you.

I went back and read the instructions and I made sure that the upper part of the mask was further down my nose and the bottom cupped my chin more and this resolved the leakage.

Good luck in getting a proper fit because you will enjoy this mask so much more than the Ultra Mirage FFM.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:05 am

allen wrote:Not only leaking, but power leaking: LOUD and strong, steady gusts.

LOL, I've never heard it described before as power leaking, but what an apt phrase!! Love it!

Well, I don't love the problem you're having, Allen...very sorry about that. It was just that great phrase you used and the description of what "power leaking" is..."LOUD and strong, steady gusts."

That's exactly what happened when I tried a Hans Rudolph FF mask. Thank goodness I had bought it "lightly used" for less than half price on an auction site. I would have been sick had I paid full price.

However, in fairness to the HR, it's very possible the size was wrong for me. It was a "small". Perhaps one of the even smaller sizes (extra small and petite) they offer would have worked better. I've always been able to wear both small and medium in many other masks, but maybe the HR's run rather big.

In the meantime, allen, perhaps if you'll run a homemade strap (Ace bandage, chin strap, pantyhose leg, whatever) around the front of the thing and fasten the strap behind your head...maybe that will give the same kind of holding pressure that you found the mask needed when you pressed lightly on the front with your hand.

Good luck!

heheh..."power leaking"... instantly understood!

ProfessorSleep · Post by **ProfessorSleep** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:09 pm

I had the same reaction when I first tried it. No way was this thing ever going to seal. I added the extra seal, and it got worse. I re-measured to make sure I had the right size, etc., etc. then I figured out this one fits way lower on your nose, below the bridge, than others I had tried. Voila! No leaks! It does need to be tight, but the key for me was getting the nose portion in the right place on my schnoz.

allen · Post by **allen** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:09 pm

Whee--I have "arrived"--I got a response from RestedGal! Cool!!!!!

Thanks to all of you for the encouragement and the advice about positioning it lower on my nose. I'm going to definitely do that tonight. I bet that was the problem last night. I knew the upper tip needed to be lower than the area between my eyebrows, but I bet I can wear it even lower.

I'll also try the Ace Bandage trick if lower on the nose doesn't work.

Thanks, all!!
Allen

FL andy · Post by **FL andy** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:51 pm

allen wrote:Whee--I have "arrived"--I got a response from RestedGal! Cool!!!!!
Allen

Sure makes one feel good - like you have been accepted into the next best place to heaven, doesn't it!

Andy

allen · Post by **allen** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:55 am

Andy--yes, it does!

Follow up to mask problems-

Lowering the mask basically solved the nose leaks. However, the mask still vibrated on my cheeks.

#1 biggest problem now: My chin comes out of the mask. The mask is very tight all around my face--tighter than any other mask I've used. Yet, my chin only stays in the cup for about a minute or so before the mask slides up.

My thought is that the medium is too small and I need a large. Thoughts on this?

#2 problem: The headgear is so tight--I cannot pull the upper straps any tighter as they are maxed out. The slack from those is like 5 or 6 inches long. Last night I wrapped those to the back of my head and velcroed them to one another. This helped tighten the mask enough to seal the nose area. Question: If the mask is too small and I get a large, won't I have to tighten the headgear even more? THe headgear is size large--as it is, I won't be able to tighten it anymore because it's already at it's smallest extreme.

Thanks, all--great day to each of you!

Allen

ProfessorSleep · Post by **ProfessorSleep** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:19 am

I'm not an expert, and only the calipers know the correct sizing. But it sounds like the headgear is maybe a little too tight and/or not "balanced" appropriately. By balanced I mean the right amount of tension on the top clips and on the bottom clips. Too much on the top and the mask gets pulled up. You also have to have the little mesh "cap" situated on the crown of your head just right so it doesn't slide. Since you got your mask from a DME at least you should have the capability to try another size. First, though, I'd start over with the straps and see if I could get things adjusted a little better that way.

This mask does fit tightly. But I'd still take it over the sucking action of an Activa!

Masked Ranger · Post by **Masked Ranger** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:36 am

My first mask was a ComfortFull that was anything but comfortable and difficult to get seated properly. Any movement such as rolling over onto my side caused the mask to dislodge and leak. My current mask is a F&P 431 full face that I've been using for several months and is much more comfortable, very quiet venting with almost no leakage problems. Based on Severeena many glowing reviews of Han Rudolph I purchased one. Besides being one of more costly masks on the market... it leaked badly around the nose bridge and the vent holes are very noisy. The head gear is an outdated rat's nest of uncomfortable velcro straps that takes three hands to untangle and impossible get properly adjusted. I contact Han Rudolph to complain... they said my pressures are too high (10/15 is too high??)and I needed a sensa seal to stop the nose area leakage. Ok... I get the nose seal and didn't help. As far as I'm concerned Han Rudolph isn't worth wasting money or time on.

Severeena · Post by **Severeena** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:52 pm

This what I found out with the head gear, you have to make sure all four connectors are equally in pressure as far as tightness is concerned.

Do you have the cap or the straps?

Severeena · Post by **Severeena** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:46 pm

Allen and everyone else, it is for your benefit that you get your own caliper to measure yourself for the Hans Rudolph, call the company tell them what you got as far as the measurement. They will tell you the correct size over the phone.
DME's do not know how to read or even interpret the caliper. They do not want to deal with the HR so they will deliberately mess you upBy calling the Hans Rudolph company you get the correct size and you go to the DME with what size you are and all the info and they can only order what you say and you make them repeat it as well as a copy of the order they write out.

I am very demanding in my paper work.

You have to be.

allen · Post by **allen** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:05 am

Improvement!
I redid the straps from scratch, and the mask fits better. My chin is not coming out anymore.

I do get leaks when I roll onto my side, which I'm prone to do while sleeping. But, I've found that if I reach over, turn the machine off and then back on, the mask reseals itself.

When the mask isn't leaking, it's eerily quiet--I like that!

Sharon,
The headgear I've got is the mesh cap thing with the 4 straps and the "emergency exit" pull-cord. Iamb using the excess of the two upper straps to tighten the nose area by tieing them together at the back of my head. It works. I'm having to wear the mask a bit tighter than is comfortable, but I can tell that once I get used to it, there will be NO comparison to my unfortunate experience with the Ultra Mirage FF.

Allen

dkeat · Post by **dkeat** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:02 pm

Allen,

I was given a medium HR FF mask to test and had similar experiences to yours. I figured out for myself that the mask leaked less when worn farther down the nose. Only problem was, in my case at least, it also pinches the nose shut to a large degree.

The HR headgear - the one that you have with the mesh - is awful. I was given the same one (large like yours) to test and couldn't really get it tight enough without totally "maxing it out". I don't know what sort of heads they make that for. You should look into getting the new headgear. You should have gotten it anyway if you just purchased the mask as it has been out for some time. It is not the simplicity of the Ultra Mirage headgear, but it goes in that direction and is a great improvement over the old one. Good luck.

sleepy gal · Post by **sleepy gal** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 8:13 pm

Allen, I had exactly the same problem with the HR FF mask! I have tried using panty hose to hold it tighter, and also moved it down my nose a bit! Still can't get it right most of the time. I am a side sleeper, and that is part of the problem. It would be wonderfully comfortable if it didn't leak!

Sounds like you are doing better, but if not, re-sizing might help....I think perhaps smaller, not larger, if your chin is slipping out. Did your DME use the HR calipers? You've really got to use them.

Good luck!

Severeena · Post by **Severeena** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 9:28 pm

Allen I am glad things are finally coming together for you.

You need to contact the company to see if you can get the new head gear which is a strap head gear. It is more comfortable and I feel it helps keep the seal better on the mask when you roll onto your side.

I am a left side sleeper and if I roll onto my right side my mask does leak, but only on the right side.

I start out on my left side and that is where I stay all night.

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Hans Rudolph FF Problems and Questions

Hans Rudolph FF Problems and Questions

HR Mask