"Health Care" Debate

[roster]

Even the socialists at the New York Times are beginning to report on the ruinous end to European socialism - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/world ... ?th&emc=th

“The easy days are over for countries like Greece, Portugal and Spain, but for us, too,” said Laurent Cohen-Tanugi, a French lawyer who did a study of Europe in the global economy for the French government. “A lot of Europeans would not like the issue cast in these terms, but that is the storm we’re facing. We can no longer afford the old social model, and there is a real need for structural reform.”

And here in the U.S. we have a Congress and President who are speeding up our journey down the same ruinous road. For you inveterate Democrats, yes I am fully aware that Bush and the Republican Congress had the car going pretty well in that same ruinous direction.

[no_more_headaches]

Even the socialists at the New York Times are beginning to report on the ruinous end to European socialism - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/world ... ?th&emc=th

“The easy days are over for countries like Greece, Portugal and Spain, but for us, too,” said Laurent Cohen-Tanugi, a French lawyer who did a study of Europe in the global economy for the French government. “A lot of Europeans would not like the issue cast in these terms, but that is the storm we’re facing. We can no longer afford the old social model, and there is a real need for structural reform.”

And here in the U.S. we have a Congress and President who are speeding up our journey down the same ruinous road. For you inveterate Democrats, yes I am fully aware that Bush and the Republican Congress had the car going pretty well in that same ruinous direction.

Sigh - can't you at least allow the pendulum to swing once in a while. We have had a republican administration for 28 of the last 42 years.

[Maple Leaf]

roster, I'm sure there are political forums out there in internet land...... take a hike.... or get a life.

[roster]

Sigh - can't you at least allow the pendulum to swing once in a while. We have had a republican administration for 28 of the last 42 years.

So you would prefer that the Democrats wreck the country instead of the Republicans? You think you get a better ride from the Democrats? In the end the big wreck is the same with either one of them driving.

Your comment illustrates something very unfortunate. You party loyalists think the Republicans and Democrats govern differently. They are just two wings of one big government party. Both build up the government and social programs. Bush grew the government. Reagan grew the government. Bush implemented a costly social program in the form of the Medicare Prescription, Drug, Improvement and Modernization Act. Neither party has addressed the big Ponzi schemes of Medicare and Social Security.

[Nord]

So you would prefer that the Democrats wreck the country instead of the Republicans? You think you get a better ride from the Democrats? In the end the big wreck is the same with either one of them driving.

Your comment illustrates something very unfortunate. You party loyalists think the Republicans and Democrats govern differently. They are just two wings of one big government party. Both build up the government and social programs. Bush grew the government. Reagan grew the government. Bush implemented a costly social program in the form of the Medicare Prescription, Drug, Improvement and Modernization Act. Neither party has addressed the big Ponzi schemes of Medicare and Social Security.

Hi Roster...

You would think that at your age and amount of experience that you have... you would understand that nothing is so simple.

It was business and the banking scheme (should I say investment) that caused the latest meltdown where the "zero sum" game was played to perfection. As always you have reduced the argument to your own self interest which had very little to do with the cost of medical programs. If it were, as you know, a socialist state like Canada would have suffered much more than it did.
Perhaps your rant should include unions as the root of all problems. Just like everything else in life... its not that simple.

Perhaps a more balanced approach would gain more sympathy for your views politically... like your views medically.

Fraternally... (we are all in this soup together)
Nord

[roster]

Anyone care to address the article in the NY Times?

[Nord]

Anyone care to address the article in the NY Times?

For what its worth... I read the Times Article that you posted and the article and the author "Steven Erlanger" are anything but "left leaning".
Have you read some of his other Pro-Right articles... ??

Nord

[DreamStalker]

Anyone care to address the article in the NY Times?

Why don't you use that paper to wipe your dumb ass.

Don't they have out-houses where you live so that you can unload your load of crap instead of doing it here all the time.

Geeeez ... !

[no_more_headaches]

Sigh - can't you at least allow the pendulum to swing once in a while. We have had a republican administration for 28 of the last 42 years.

So you would prefer that the Democrats wreck the country instead of the Republicans? You think you get a better ride from the Democrats? In the end the big wreck is the same with either one of them driving.

Your comment illustrates something very unfortunate. You party loyalists think the Republicans and Democrats govern differently. They are just two wings of one big government party. Both build up the government and social programs. Bush grew the government. Reagan grew the government. Bush implemented a costly social program in the form of the Medicare Prescription, Drug, Improvement and Modernization Act. Neither party has addressed the big Ponzi schemes of Medicare and Social Security.

Letting the pendulum swing is good for both sides and democracy. It allows for new blood, it allows for politicians to rethink policies, it rebalances the previous administrations overreach.

And during the Clinton years we reduced a lot of government spending military bases were closed right and left in the US amongst other things. We balanced the dget for a moment now granted some percentage of that was due to the economic bubble but we were close.
This administration started severely in the whole. I suppose we could have not done any of the bailout and let nature take it's course but the problem as has been mentioned is realtime nature of this economy. It is structured to demand profits now. Personally I am favor of micro tiers of capital gain taxation.
IE 60% tax on super short term < 1 week
50% tax < 1 month
40% < 1 quarter
25% < 2 quarters
15% > 1 year

This whole thing about oil speculation that drives up the price of oil based on other indicators in the economy which results in gas doubling in price a couple of years when the demand didn't is nuts and hurt our economy.
Unbridled and unregulated capitalism leads to monopolies. This prop 16 thing in California makes my head want to explode.

[Nord]

So you would prefer that the Democrats wreck the country instead of the Republicans? You think you get a better ride from the Democrats? In the end the big wreck is the same with either one of them driving.

Your comment illustrates something very unfortunate. You party loyalists think the Republicans and Democrats govern differently. They are just two wings of one big government party. Both build up the government and social programs. Bush grew the government. Reagan grew the government. Bush implemented a costly social program in the form of the Medicare Prescription, Drug, Improvement and Modernization Act. Neither party has addressed the big Ponzi schemes of Medicare and Social Security.

Hi Roster

I, like many others here, do appreciate your clear thinking and hard working approach to life.
I do not want you to go away...
But "fanning the flame" of such an anti-social, anti-government, pro-business, pro-profit approach to life is likely get hardened opinions.
If your efforts are to get people thinking... you do that.
If your efforts are to reverse opinion... then you need to win arguments by well placed points... not riding the coattails of "fast talking" right wing writers.

Convince me that it is better to let business "run" the country. Show me their meritorious efforts to better humanity... not their bottom line to make shareholders happy.
Show me a company that doesn't want to make more money than it deserves... unfortunately, its all about greed.
Business must be regulated or there will only be two classes... the haves and the have-nots.

A balanced approach is better in all aspects of life... you know that.

Nord

[WearyOne]

It’s amazes me every time. The thread is clearly marked “health care,” anyone who’s been around here any length of time knows Rooster’s (Roster’s) leanings, and everyone is capable of choosing not to read a thread that’s of no interest to them in this setting. As many have said before, if you don’t like the topic, just don’t read it. Yep, this is a cpap forum, but as we ALL know, there are many threads here that are not cpap-related, or directly cpap-related.

I run my own extremely small business (it's only me), and all I want to do is be able to afford non-government-provided health care for myself, pay my minor business-related bills, and get paid for the hours I work.

Rooster, I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment on the article, but love the frogs-in-the-pan cartoon!

EDIT: Um, I know I'm getting old and such, but did someone delete the original post and everything else by the Roster? Or have I really lost it? You do know that's a no-no, don't you?

[pforrest]

new memeber, thought I posted will try again with new thoughts in case it does post.

There are those of us who like the country we have and do not want it to go the way of europe. Having faced prostate cancer, high bp, and now OSA. I am very thankful that I was able to have a choice in my medical professionals and choice in my treatment. With that, my quality of life is still intact and do not have to live with the life long side effects that other treatments would have had. That I had a choice and was not subjected to a gov. panel to decide my fate means my freedom is of value.

Just want you to think what are you willing to give up to have something "given" to you. I will take my freedom to fail.

[Maple Leaf]

It’s amazes me every time. The thread is clearly marked “health care,” anyone who’s been around here any length of time knows Rooster’s (Roster’s) leanings, and everyone is capable of choosing not to read a thread that’s of no interest to them in this setting. As many have said before, if you don’t like the topic, just don’t read it. Yep, this is a cpap forum, but as we ALL know, there are many threads here that are not cpap-related, or directly cpap-related.

Fair enough. But c'mon......it gets old, day after day of links with nothing more than partisan debates that usually end up with one or more members going at it. I'd also hate to log onto the site and see my screen riddled with OT threads, just because we can. Once in awhile sure.... 3x/day.... gees.

[roster]

Oh, I see someone has taken it upon themselves to become the decision maker on what the rest of the members can read and not read by deleting some of my posts. That action would certainly fit in with someone who wants a central government to make decisions for individuals.

Nord, I am sure it wasn't you or Dreamstalker.

...

Convince me that it is better to let business "run" the country. Show me their meritorious efforts to better humanity... not their bottom line to make shareholders happy.
Nord

Nord, I would say let businesses run their businesses and let individuals run their businesses and let the government protect our individual rights and protect us from foreign attacks. History has shown us how poorly things go when government tries to run industries, make decisions for individuals, protect us from ourselves and run the economy.

As far as meritorious effort by institutions or individuals, I am an avid supporter of some social institutions ("who make meritorious efforts to better humanity") with both my hours of effort and donations of money.

However I know in the practicality of existence - profit-making businesses feed, clothe, shelter and provide medical care for the world.

At social institutions, we just help some of those on the fringe. We could never achieve the great scale, excellent quality or innovation of what businesses do.

The efforts of honest "for-profit" businesses are "meritorious efforts to better humanity". I can say this about the grocer, the laundry, the lawn service, the dental practice, the lawyer, the restaurant, the auto shop, the chemical company, .... well all honest businesses.

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.
-Adam Smith

BTW Nord, despite my best efforts to avoid business travel, some pressing matters now require travel and I will be away most of this coming week and will follow with some pleasure travel with the family. If I am unable to post for some days, don't want you to think I am pouting.

[roster]

...... take a hike....

Just had to peek at my diary.

FYI, I have hiked 326 miles this year.

My partner on the longest of those trips is the CEO of a nonprofit and he is a big socialist that wants universal health care for the U.S. We had many long debates about the subject.

I don't plan to harm him, but I do stay a considerable distance from his reach when we are on narrow cliff ledges.