Final Peace Offering to Link

[mars]

Here is my final offering to end this insanity, Link. I will not comment on any of your threads, or criticize your opinions or suggestions, whether or not I think they have credence. I will make no comments about you, either stated or implied. I am requesting that you do the same--in this way we will not compromise the integrity of this message board. I offer a complete truce, by means of ignoring each other, and our divergent points of view, and wish you well. Please offer to do the same as this board is too important in dealing with folks who have sleep issues. I think both of us can offer good experiential suggestions and comments to those here, and don't wish to continue this any longer. Let us bury the hatchet by avoidance, and in the spirit of being good Christians.

Autopapdude.

I have just read the thread -

viewtopic/t48958/26year-Old-Man-Dies-Du ... Study.html

as I think everyone should who reads your "Final Offer".

Offering a truce is not the same as apologising for your gratuitous insults to people.

Until you can challenge people on the facts of a post you do not agree with, with substantiated facts of your own, then a truce just serves your own purpose of avoiding facing up to your own abusive remarks.

And on that thread you accused socknitster of -

Who died, and made you queen of appropriateness on this board? I felt the "Newspaper headline" style of journalism was likely to induce fear and possibly panic among individuals who are inexperienced in the area of sleep disorders.

You abuse socknitster as "queen of appropriateness", and then in the very next sentence you tell us what you think is appropriate.

These gratuitous insults of yours, and illogical reasoning, are an invitation to the kind of posts you complain about.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47269&p=427482&hili ... rs#p427482

What you are really doing is asking LinkC to allow your gratuitous insults and illogical posts to go unchallenged, and implying that the rest of us should do the same.

This can be resolved. You start off by apologising personally and individually to those you have abused, and make the strongest resolve possible to stop your abusive behaviour.

I repeat, your offer of a truce is manipulative, and only serves your own purpose. And don't think your "supportive posts" are taken seriously by those who have read your other abusive posts. It's just more manipulation.

Mars

[Madalot]

I thought I'd chime in here one more time and let people know that I have received a couple of PM's regarding MY comments about this situation. And it appears that I was correct in that these shenanigans ARE chasing some people away from this forum. While I know the vast majority of people feel that the "feud" between these individuals should be ignored, there are people that simply cannot do that and just leave.

So, to those people that are hiding behind the anonymous nature of the internet and treating people like dirt because you don't have to face them, you might want to stop and consider the consequences of your behavior.

[carbonman]

And it appears that I was correct in that these shenanigans ARE chasing some people away from this forum. While I know the vast majority of people feel that the "feud" between these individuals should be ignored, there are people that simply cannot do that and just leave.

I wonder how people that can't handle the anonymity of the internet
ever get out the door and face the real world.

I got'a believe that there are more complicated,
underlying reasons for choosing to abandon this site,
if you are looking for cpap help.

[Hawthorne]

When this kind of thing has happened before, I also have had PMs from people who were afraid to post on the forum because of this. They felt they might be attacked as well. Many of them have not posted. They may still be here, hopefully, reading and learning but they will not post anything or ask anything. Some may have just left.

I know some people will feel that the people who choose not to post or to leave, because of this, just can't handle internet forums.

I think it is a shame, given the purpose of this forum, that people, who may need some help using cpap, do not post or actually leave, because they do not wish to be attacked.

[jnk]

Dear newbies,

If you start a thread to post a question and say you are new, no one will attack you.

Or, if anyone does attack you, I promise, as a card-carrying member of carbonman's unruly mob, to flame the living daylights out of whoever dares to attack you.

There, does that help?

If I hear two people arguing on the street, I keep walking unless I think I need to dial 911.

The only way to improve the feel of a board is to be active in making positive posts and starting positive, helpful threads so that they greatly outnumber the less-than-pleasant occasional public outbursts of less-than-positive posts.

Part of turning the other cheek is simply looking the other way.

I, like many of us, keep forgetting that every time I make a post in this thread, it bumps it up to run off more newbies. I resolve that in the future I will ignore such threads and will refuse to bump them up with a reply post.

For the record, I still love this "place." It is the best thing going for patients helping patients with PAP therapy.

jeff

[Madalot]

And it appears that I was correct in that these shenanigans ARE chasing some people away from this forum. While I know the vast majority of people feel that the "feud" between these individuals should be ignored, there are people that simply cannot do that and just leave.

I wonder how people that can't handle the anonymity of the internet
ever get out the door and face the real world.

I got'a believe that there are more complicated,
underlying reasons for choosing to abandon this site,
if you are looking for cpap help.

Hi Carbonman --

My experience says that there are certain people that feel because they don't have to face a person, they are free to insult or abuse them. They say things over the internet that they wouldn't dream of saying to a person's face. They would be afraid to say such things face-to-face for fear of the consequences. Because there really are no consequences over the internet, they feel free to say whatever they want and don't care if they are rude, hostile or abusive.

There's a ton of difference between interacting with someone over the internet and in person. Most of us use the same code of conduct for both methods of interaction. Those that choose not to are the ones that cause the problems.

Let's take you and me for example. We obviously do not agree about this and are probably on total opposite ends of the spectrum. But you have not been rude to me or insulted me and I have not been rude or insulted you. We are discussing this and expressing our viewpoints without resorting to insults. We are using a code of behavior and conduct that we would use talking to someone in person. We are being mature adults.

Any person that cannot behave under an accepted code of courtesy and politeness should not be posting at all.

[Madalot]

Hey Jeff --

Thanks for posting that. The example of walking away from an argument on the street is appropriate and definitely makes me stop and pause. Thanks.

I am NOT going to leave here, despite being thoroughly disgusted by the rudeness I've seen. When I've tried to participate on other boards that have this, I have found myself drawn into the fray, despite my best efforts at avoiding it. I've almost made it a policy to avoid boards with this kind of hostility and childish behavior.

But, I NEED this board. I need the expertise of the people that participate here. I hope to become a veteran myself and be able to offer MY expertise down the road.

[rosacer]

I think it is a shame, given the purpose of this forum, that people, who may need some help using cpap, do not post or actually leave, because they do not wish to be attacked.

I agree with you Hawthorne, and I acknowledge it takes a bit of courage to stay in a place where you don't feel secure. It toke me some reflexion about the pros and cons of staying here; the first ans second time I received not kind comments on my posts. I felt I was not part of the group and I had no right to give my opinion.

I'm glad somebody told (sorry, I don't remember who was) all we belongs here since the first moment we sign in, thanks for that!

But still it would be better if we can come here feeling we will be respected instead of comming here with the idea we need to ignore the bad and take the good. Comming here with the idea we will help somebody with kindness instead of trying to find the wrongs (in our eyes) and hit with rage. It's known there is a lot of that in youngster's forums, we are not so young isn't it?

[Autopapdude]

Hey folks,

No need for any of you to leave or feel uncomfortable. Obviously, my posts have upset enough people that my presence around here is no longer desired. The purpose of this thread was to attempt to put the entire mess behind, and restate the original apology. In addition, I was offering a way out of the "flame wars" that were taking place on various threads. Yes, my posts were inappropriate, and often reactive in a gratuitous manner. For that, I am sorry if I disrupted the purpose and spirit of this board--that is, to provide information to folks with significant sleep disorders. I had felt that my experience as a cpapper might outweigh my "shoot from the hip" style--I've always said what was on my mind, and as such, some of what I've said has been attacked and been found to be inflammatory.

Do I feel I have been alone in this situation, in transgressing? No, but I can only speak for myself, and no one else. So for the entire group, I will apologize, and as the saying goes "talk my football and go home." I shall no longer post, but may stay around so as to gain information, much as the rest of you do.

My best and fondest wishes are to all of you for the best health, happiness, and great compliance with your xpap threapy. I hope you all achieve the restoration of much needed sleep and rest, with the aid of good therapy. All of you that I have offended, feel more comfortable in knowing that I won't agitate your situations any longer. Life is too ephemeral to engage in wars and conflict--these petty arguments enrich no one. So, I feel it is best to stay out of things. I will continue to read what is written in the hope that it gives me some comfort and solace with my own ongoing treatment. Those who have been offended by me have my sincerest apology, and worry not--I won't come back to haunt you. This is not a ploy for sympathy, nor is it a manipulative tactic, as was previously stated. Frankly, I am tired of the fighting, and this board has too much to offer for too many to be bogged down in any one individual. So, this will be best for all concerned.

Wishing you the best,
Autopapdude

[carbonman]

They say things over the internet that they wouldn't dream of saying to a person's face. They would be afraid to say such things face-to-face for fear of the consequences.

The internet is like the wild west....there is no law.
There are the good guys and there are the bad guys.

Yes, you and I are having a mature, rational discussion.
I don't think we are as far apart as you may think.

Judging by your recent update on dealing w/your DME,
I certainly have no inclination to be rude or insulting, to you.

I have posted stuff here that was not very popular.....I got flamed for some of it.
I have received some really ugly PMs.

....I also have a fascination w/internet boards and
have participated in many.....and learned a lot of stuff about
neat stuff I was interested in......and neat stuff about myself.

I am NOT going to leave here, despite being thoroughly disgusted by the rudeness I've seen.
I hope to become a veteran myself and be able to offer MY expertise down the road.

It is a journey.
I'm going to look forward to seeing you on down the road.

Any person that cannot behave under an accepted code of courtesy and politeness should not be posting at all.

This is a very slippery slope.
My experience w/this, not only on this forum, but on others,
moderated or not, is self correcting.

[Madalot]

Hey Carbonman --

You, once again, bring up valid points. Comparing the internet to the old west -- too funny, but I have to admit it makes sense!!

As for the "slippery slope" regarding my comment, you are correct and I take it back. It's not my place to dictate who should and should not be posting. All I can do is make up my mind about MY behavior and part in any problems and go from there.

I typically will not engage someone right away, even if provoked. I usually try to maintain my code of conduct and courtesy, even if someone else chooses not to. I hope to encourage them to be more polite.

But if that doesn't work, I can be as nasty and ugly as the next person. But it truly takes a lot for me to get to that level.

Yes, you and I are probably more in line in our thinking than I may have realized.

Onward from here.

[jnk]

. . . I can be as nasty and ugly as the next person. . . .

When and if that happens (though I doubt it ever will), you will still be welcome here. It will just be assumed that it was because your therapy was not going well that day, and we will all try to understand.

So far, the only thing I've found offensive about you is that it looks to me like your avatar cat is about to sneeze, and it makes me feel like sneezing.

Another message to lurking newbies:

If you are a newbie and don't want to post your questions because you consider yourself a jerk and don't want to offend anyone, please post anyway. Jerks are welcome here, since they get OSA too, just like everybody else. It would be good if you at least tried to be nice, but everyone will understand if you fail.

jeff

[WearyOne]

My experience says that there are certain people that feel because they don't have to face a person, they are free to insult or abuse them. They say things over the internet that they wouldn't dream of saying to a person's face. They would be afraid to say such things face-to-face for fear of the consequences. Because there really are no consequences over the internet, they feel free to say whatever they want and don't care if they are rude, hostile or abusive.

There's a ton of difference between interacting with someone over the internet and in person. Most of us use the same code of conduct for both methods of interaction. Those that choose not to are the ones that cause the problems.

Let's take you and me for example. We obviously do not agree about this and are probably on total opposite ends of the spectrum. But you have not been rude to me or insulted me and I have not been rude or insulted you. We are discussing this and expressing our viewpoints without resorting to insults. We are using a code of behavior and conduct that we would use talking to someone in person. We are being mature adults.

Any person that cannot behave under an accepted code of courtesy and politeness should not be posting at all.

I have had issues with this in the past as well. I've made the huge mistake of posting in OT topics that sometimes can get into lengthy, a-hem, "discussions." I have never been rude, but I've sure had it thrown at me. I left for a few months myself due to some of this not just directed at me, but others as well. I came back because of the wealth of help and information here from so many wonderful folks---and maybe I might be able to help others, too. (I also said to myself I'd do my best not to post in heated threads no matter how passionate my feelings--I've made a few exceptions, though, like here. ) Some people just laugh at or ignore the rude (and sometime nasty) mud slinging and go on; others have a different personality and it does bother them. Unfortunately, some people feel they can't get across their opinion without lashing out with rude remarks and name-calling at those who have a different opinion.

I, too, just wish folks could be respectful in their disagreements regardless of how "ridiculous" you may think the other person's opinions are!

Pam

EDIT: Hey, madalot, just noticed you're from Virginia, too---hi, neighbor!

[DoriC]

Hey Jeff, I know you're going to get someone mad by calling them "A Jerk", but not me!!

[5aces]

Welcome to the Internet

It seems to me that even with the very obvious guidelines posted directly on the "user agreement" at the bottom of our screens, a lot of participants in many of these forums still can't get past bickering, name-calling, one-upping, and general bitching that seems reminiscent of bratty comments left on bathroom walls.

I've been chewed out by a few choice individuals in other forums and believe me when I say:"I'm prepared for that to happen at times"

I was just wondering how in the world anyone who feels it's necessary to make snide quips at other peoples' opinions or questions can take themselves seriously in the real world.

We all have seen people fly completely off the handle and go on a rant about simple spelling errors, completely off topic.
I understand that it's frustrating to see people who still can't discriminate between "your" and "you're," but honestly,they're just people like you and I.

Anyway, my point is that I believe that anyone who has to rip people apart, flaunt their seeming intelligence and act like their pride is really something that deserves to be defended with curse words and snide remarks should really should think about trying the forums again at a later time.

I am not bashing free speech, I am supporting open,respectful dialogue.
I understand that when someone makes a jab at us, our intelligence, our opinions, or anything else along those lines, it can bother us.
Retaliating with "well f*** you, you're an idiot blah blah blah" is not appropriate, nor will it do anything to resolve the issue.
All it will do is fuel a really annoying fire that hinders the opportunity for real growth and intellectual discussion in the forum.

Maybe we need a section devoted to flagrant bickering sessions with no real point... just lots of dirty insults and low brow humor.
It would probably be quite popular!

My Rant-that serves no real purpose,sorry I missed another epic Linkc vs. autopapdude episode,yar!