Women: Please help me design a female-oriented PAP-Cap

[DreamOn]

Working on redesigning the bottom / backstrap extensions (all caps) to be a cotton strap extension that snaps onto the backstraps...is narrow enough to feed through mask fittings, and has better / more durable Velcro. The snap seems like a good idea because it becomes a quick release mechanism as well...I'll post some pics once I've got the sample in hand.

That sounds like a great idea! If I'm envisioning this correctly, it would make the mask much easier to fit onto the straps. As I mentioned, I'm having to put the Plus cap on first and then feed the bottom Velcro straps through the mask buckles. It's quite an awkward operation! With the snaps, I could affix all the straps to the mask buckles, and then just snap those bottom straps onto the cap. Brilliant!

~ DreamOn

[lmmo]

Brett
My grandmother uses a satin pillow case. Bad hair is a problem. I use my papcap now because I am bald. Works wonderful. When I had hair I had to know if I needed to wake up in the afternoon presentable. So, I would alternate with a chin strap. Hope this helps. Lisa

[katcw]

Velcro and long hair = problems. Is there some other kind of fastener that could be used? Maybe the net would solve the problem, but it would have to come in various sizes for length and thickness of hair, and I'm not sure that would keep it out of the way of the velcro....

Smaller head sizes.

Suggest using a non-gender preferred color, because there are men with small heads and women with large ones.

That's all I can think of right now. Thanks for doing this, Bret. It is a great idea, and asking for our input is affirming to us and will help you produce a better product.

[SleepGuy]

My grandmother uses a satin pillow case. Bad hair is a problem. I use my papcap now because I am bald. Works wonderful. When I had hair I had to know if I needed to wake up in the afternoon presentable. So, I would alternate with a chin strap. Hope this helps. Lisa

Lisa, I'm not sure I follow this. Please explain the cap-stain case-hair problem?

Velcro and long hair = problems. Is there some other kind of fastener that could be used? Maybe the net would solve the problem, but it would have to come in various sizes for length and thickness of hair, and I'm not sure that would keep it out of the way of the velcro....

Smaller head sizes.

Suggest using a non-gender preferred color, because there are men with small heads and women with large ones.

That's all I can think of right now. Thanks for doing this, Bret. It is a great idea, and asking for our input is affirming to us and will help you produce a better product.

katcw: two questions for you:

1. SIZE: cap sizing has been an issue and over the last 12 months several modifications to the design were made. I am not seeing "fit" comments on the current version and would like to know when you purchased your cap? Specifically, describe the shape of the tail. That would help and I might be able to get you the new version to compare / contrast.

2. VELCRO & HAIR: Please provide some more detail? The tail is supposed to be the primary solution to that issue. However, for some long hair it just doesn't work to have the tail beneath the Velcro backstrap connection. What if you put your hair in a pony (perhaps even temporarily), put on the cap, thread the hair beneath the tail and connect the Backstraps beneath the pony (does that make sense?). Once connected the pony elastic could be removed....Just trying to think through the details here--

Another question for anyone:

How about using a soft terrycloth (or similar) for the chinstrap? No sewn edges to dig into the chin--as many have commented....

THANKS!

[Bert_Mathews]

Bret;
I have some VELCRO from a automotive parts supply Co. that has REAL SHORT loops that doesn't grab hair
and it's two color Gray & Black I can send you a sample?? I'll also try to find the manufacture?
As for SIZE ?? Could you build a seam/pocket on the sides with Velcro inside or elastic straps?
BERT

[xiola]

I am working on developing a more female-oriented PAP-Cap and would really appreciate some feedback. Helpful comments will be rewarded--special discount coupon codes, demo product samples, free product--and many thanks.

Some issues I am considering:

1. Fabric Color: lavender colored solid print?

lavendar, light blue, a pleasing green. any color that is not too garish or bright, but please. no pink.

2. Hair Management: The current design allows for long hair to be fed out of the cap, beneath the "tail" and the backstraps locking below the hair. How is does this work? Is a ponytail recommended or does that create an uncomfortable knot? Does your hair get tangled in the Velcro straps? Design recommendations?


I have really long hair and sleep with it in a ponytail, this ensures that I'm not sleeping on it (pulling your hair every time you roll over wakes you up.. painfully!). I can't imagine trying to sleep with all these straps on with hair not in a ponytail.

3. Would a hair net be helpful, such as this (without the bow): http://www.horsetackinternational.com/i ... -black.JPG

no, this wouldn't work. if you have long hair, or medium length thick hair, the hair gathered at the base of your neck would be like sleeping with a tennis ball behind your head.


4. Instructions: Are there any special tips / tricks that should be passed on to women?


5. Anything else that might make the product more useful for women--especially in light of the negative experiences

Or the 164 things that never occurred to me, being a dumb guy!

Several months ago I saw a news piece featuring the utter personal devastation experienced by many women upon receiving the CPAP Life Sentence--I would love to be able to use the PAP-Cap to give women a sense of dignity, femininity, and style....

Thanks!

[DreamOn]

Another question for anyone:

How about using a soft terrycloth (or similar) for the chinstrap? No sewn edges to dig into the chin--as many have commented....

Terrycloth sounds interesting. It would absorb any drool too. Since it's a looser weave than the cotton fabric, I just wonder if it'll hold its shape over time as well. And personally, I prefer 100% cotton everything for sleeping. If the terrycloth is 100% cotton and it doesn't stretch out too much, that may be great.

~ DreamOn

[cflame1]

Please explain the cap-stain case-hair problem?

Bret, it's satin... a type of material that's slippery... supposed to keep your hair from messing up when you lay down on it.

It's shiny, slippery... either ask your wife, or ask somebody at a fabric store.

[cflame1]

Please explain the cap-stain case-hair problem?

Bret, it's satin... a type of material that's slippery... supposed to keep your hair from messing up when you lay down on it.

It's shiny, slippery... either ask your wife, or ask somebody at a fabric store.

[soverytired2]

I loved the concept of the pap-cap but had a few problems with it for myself. Besides being too big for me, my pap-cap did not agree with my layered wavy hair and I couldn't contain it enough to keep it out of the velcro. The straps seemed too long as well. If I took a quick nap during the day, my hair under the cap was completely flat and unrecoverable until I showered again and if I had errands or was running back to work after a lunchtime nap, I had no time to shower. I do think a netting might be ok, or some way of making the cap without completely covering the hair. Hot flashes made my covered head way too uncomfortable. I would definitely try it again if you use some of this feedback in your redesign. Thanks for the opportunity to make a difference!

Paula

[gasp]

I am working on developing a more female-oriented PAP-Cap and would really appreciate some feedback. Helpful comments will be rewarded--special discount coupon codes, demo product samples, free product--and many thanks.

Some issues I am considering:

1. Fabric Color: lavender colored solid print?

2. Hair Management: The current design allows for long hair to be fed out of the cap, beneath the "tail" and the backstraps locking below the hair. How is does this work? Is a ponytail recommended or does that create an uncomfortable knot? Does your hair get tangled in the Velcro straps? Design recommendations?

3. Would a hair net be helpful, such as this (without the bow): http://www.horsetackinternational.com/i ... -black.JPG

4. Instructions: Are there any special tips / tricks that should be passed on to women?

5. Anything else that might make the product more useful for women--especially in light of the negative experiences

Or the 164 things that never occurred to me, being a dumb guy!

Several months ago I saw a news piece featuring the utter personal devastation experienced by many women upon receiving the CPAP Life Sentence--I would love to be able to use the PAP-Cap to give women a sense of dignity, femininity, and style....

Thanks!

1. I like the color to be more neutral - not fond of purple.
2. I have really long hair and it can get caught in velcro if I have to close it after putting it on versus before. I like the idea of the hair being fed out the top and having the strap beneath the ponytail!
3. Hairnet not helpful for me. It would bunch up my hair so that it becomes floppy when turning side to side - even if my hair wasn't as heavy as it is, I don't think it would make hair management better. Also, it's tough to get all the hair in the net. Maybe I'm net challenged : )
4. Pictures, pictures, pictures. Not the sketch type, rather real life pictures of people wearing the device. Pictures from different angles.
5. I like velcro versus buckles. It's nice to have the cap be stretchy enough that I only have to adjust the velcro straps once, then let it be until washing etc. Also, the cap/headgear needs to breath! Hair is hot, especially if you have a lot of it and it's thick. So a Cool Cap would be great.

If you can pull this off - wow!! I'd love to get the CL2 headgear off my forehead but lack the mechanical imagination to do so. Best wishes to you and your endeavor and thanks for asking for feedback.

[katcw]

Velcro and long hair = problems. Is there some other kind of fastener that could be used? Maybe the net would solve the problem, but it would have to come in various sizes for length and thickness of hair, and I'm not sure that would keep it out of the way of the velcro....

Smaller head sizes.

Suggest using a non-gender preferred color, because there are men with small heads and women with large ones.

That's all I can think of right now. Thanks for doing this, Bret. It is a great idea, and asking for our input is affirming to us and will help you produce a better product.

katcw: two questions for you:

1. SIZE: cap sizing has been an issue and over the last 12 months several modifications to the design were made. I am not seeing "fit" comments on the current version and would like to know when you purchased your cap? Specifically, describe the shape of the tail. That would help and I might be able to get you the new version to compare / contrast.

I haven't used the papcap. I'm just offering general feelings about a potential new product.


2. VELCRO & HAIR: Please provide some more detail? The tail is supposed to be the primary solution to that issue. However, for some long hair it just doesn't work to have the tail beneath the Velcro backstrap connection. What if you put your hair in a pony (perhaps even temporarily), put on the cap, thread the hair beneath the tail and connect the Backstraps beneath the pony (does that make sense?). Once connected the pony elastic could be removed....Just trying to think through the details here--

I presume adjustments to the fit need to be made after one puts the cap on. That probably means opening and re-positioning the velcro, which then might catch the hair. Again, just speculation and offering general input on a great product concept.

Another question for anyone:

How about using a soft terrycloth (or similar) for the chinstrap? No sewn edges to dig into the chin--as many have commented....

THANKS![/quote]

[Scarlet834]

I purchased the PAP-Cap with great expectations but it is just plain too large for me in head circumference, depth from top to ear, and width of chinstrap. I had to remove the back straps to even have a prayer of making it fit around my head. Although folding the edge over will adjust the depth I highly recommend that a smaller size be developed as an option.

The chin strap cut into my neck and was very uncomfortable whatever I tried. I found the fabric to be very scratchy. I understand why the fabric has no give, but I just couldn't make it comfortable with the strap this wide. I'm going to try again after washing it. I haven't actually tried wearing the PAP-Cap on all night. An option I'm considering is using the cap with a piece of a previous, more neoprene-like chinstrap. I seem to do better with stretch and negative ease. As I'm soon to get a replacement mask I'm holding off so that I can keep one set up for my hat-less state and mess with the fit on the other. I haven't given up on the PAP-Cap but I was very disappointed that I didn't love it at once.

I agree with the suggestion of mesh being incorporated for breathability. The lighter the gear can be made, the better.

As far as vanity, I look absolutely horrible in the cap. There's nothing you can do about it, really, and it wouldn't keep me from using it. My main wish is a more comfortable fabric, if you can find an option that gives enough support.

[LoQ]

I have been interested in the papcap for some time, but have not bought one because I know it wouldn't work with my long thick hair. The main thing that got me interested in them were some photos that carbonman posted. Without those, I would never have given it another look.

With the current design, the only thing I could do with my hair is have it come out the bottom at the back. I absolutely CANNOT STAND to have my hair touching me when I sleep. Before CPAP therapy, I would always stretch my hair out above me over the top of the pillow so that it couldn't touch my face or neck and was out of the way. Now what I do is pull all of my hair out of the top of the headgear and then I can get it to go above me.

I thought about buying a papcap and trying to modify it by cutting a hole at the crown so I could thread my hair as a ponytail through the hole, but because the papcap is so expensive, and there aren't really any good pictures of it where I can see if there is a reasonable chance this could work, I was afraid to try this experiment. I sort of felt like if I were going to pay that much for headgear it ought to either come already prepared to let my hair escape out the top, or it at least ought to be obvious how it could be easily modified without ruining it. Neither is true.

Ideally you would have a large gap to let the hair out of the top easily and then some sort of closures to corral the hair into a smaller gap and return the integrity of the cap.

As for color, I don't care. I certainly wouldn't pay any more money for a fancy fabric for the looks, though comfort would be high on the list, even if it's ugly.


The hair net? Gag. That looks positively uncomfortable. I'm curious, what purpose do you think that hair net would serve? It's not like I'm going to be serving food.

I'm afaid I can't answer your other questions because I've never even seen a papcap up close, much less tried one on.

Good luck. I hope you come up with something, but it sounds like maybe the requirements for women vary more than you can accommodate in a single design.

[gasp]

. . . The hair net? Gag. That looks positively uncomfortable. I'm curious, what purpose do you think that hair net would serve? It's not like I'm going to be serving food.

You're killing me, I can't stop laughing.