OT, How the auto bailout works . . .

[dorourke]

We are digging our own graves with the out sourcing of jobs.

soon the only classes that will be left is the elite rich class and the surfs,
the two party system the masters and the slaves.

[OldLincoln]

Then guvment oughtta cut off any further funding to the freaking financial industry and insist on repayment of what they've tossed down the tubes of the financial industry NOW. Let Wall Street drown in its own avarice and mismanagement as well.

Down the tubes is right! I read that one banking institution used 6B of their slice to buy a bank in China. Can't make the connection here to failed mortgages in the US.

Further, the people watching this stuff at Pork Book said that the "infrastructure" projects buried in the 700B bill included museums, golf courses, bike paths, and a whole host of other projects the civil servants wanted for their home districts. I thought it was intended for the "crumbling infrastructure" throughout the US meaning roads, bridges, levees, water systems, etc. In CA, we have a lot of projects "shovel ready", including roads, bridges, etc. They have been engineered and only waiting for the money to start.

This stuff makes me sick!

[Goofproof]

Can't help but observe that "worker pay" was never an issue when it came to bailing out banks. Rethuglicans have always hated unions and this was their great chance to piss on them for good and you can bet they could care less what the consequences of their actions will be.

JeffH

In the bank bailout, it didn't have a chance to trickle down to any workers, it was all soaked up by the Golden Parachutes. Jim

The workers are seldom the problem, the problem comes from the top, American workers at large are willing to do a days work for a days pay, many of them are doing it for less than a days pay. When It came to work I was proud to earn my pay, most of the time they got 125%, the last thing we wanted to do was look like we couldn't excel at our task. There are always a few coasters at work, or anything but for the most if led the good workers follow.

[NeurosurgeryNP]

The assembly line workers can make up to $73/hour. No college education necessary. They get up to 95% of their pay and health benefits when they get laid off for an indefinite amount of time (with no work production). I have a masters degree and I am in the healthcare profession. I don't make close to $73/hour. I live on Long Island where the cost of living is astronomical! They get health insurance when they retire (and their spouses). Many of us don't. Gotta love the UAW. What is wrong with this picture? And we wonder why they are failing.

[roster]

We are digging our own graves with the out sourcing of jobs.

soon the only classes that will be left is the elite rich class and the surfs,
the two party system the masters and the slaves.

D,

I know you meant to type "serfs" or maybe today it is "surfs" - a big class of us unemployed people surfing the web with nothing productive to do. or

Regards,

[Slinky]

The assembly line workers can make up to $73/hour. No college education necessary. They get up to 95% of their pay and health benefits when they get laid off for an indefinite amount of time (with no work production). I have a masters degree and I am in the healthcare profession. I don't make close to $73/hour. I live on Long Island where the cost of living is astronomical! They get health insurance when they retire (and their spouses). Many of us don't. Gotta love the UAW. What is wrong with this picture? And we wonder why they are failing.

What is wrong w/your picture is that you have your figures ALL WRONG! The hourly workers wages and benefits cost the American automakers on average $55 an hour as compared to the average foreign automobile makers' American wages and benefits averaging about $43 a hour.

That $73 an hour figure you grasp at is the retirees' pension and health insurance benefits that they EARNED whilst working IN LIEU OF hourly wage increases piled ON TOP OF CURRENT hourly workers wages and benefits. The automobile pension funds would be in MUCH BETTER shape had not the automobile industry padded estimated interest and/or underestimating estimated interest when funding the pension plan thru the years. Part of GM's pension costs are still government mandated "make-up" funds for years of deliberate underfunding.

When GM led the American auto industry in re-tooling back under Roger B Smith's leadership it did so on the backs of its UAW members, not from company and shareholder profits and dividends. Whilst Ford and Chysler workers were receiving year end bonuses for their increased productivity and company profits GM hourly workers were receving NO bonuses or SUBSTANTIALLLy less in bonuses than Ford and Chrysler hourly workers to pay for that retooling. Roger B bought unproven technology and installed it in plants willy-nilly w/no thought to compatibility.

In just one plant I am personally familiar with one entire production line was installed and NEVER RAN production, cut up and tossed out because it couldn't do the job it was intended to do. In that same plant countless machines have been purchased, installed and can't run or can't run an acceptable scrap level. Instead of GM insisting the company building and installing the machines come back and stay until they have the line running satisfactorily before payment, GM would pay for the job - and then pay over $150 an hour for that company to send a rep back to get the line running properly. Instead of purchasing compatible computers and computer programs, different departments and plants ordered whatever they considered the best buy or whatever brands their engineers were most familiar with w/o regard to whether those computers or programs were compatible w/o others departments and plants. Thru all this the Plant Manager received an annual bonus large enough to buy a small private jet.

But you want to blame the UAW hourly worker! Snort. Talk about an elitest attitude and snobbery!!!! You worked and paid for a college education and the return on that investment didn't equal a UAW hourly worker's hourly wage so you condemn the UAW workers for making more per hour than you do.

[dorourke]

Rooster
your right I meant "Serfs"

The assembly line workers can make up to $73/hour.

Your wrong, $73/hour is the cost of the worker, including overhead. I know, I have worked in the automotive industry for the past 16 years.

I work for a supplier, we work with all manufacturers. They all have their problems, what I hear on the news and people's opinions aren't really the reality of the situation.

The big problem is the credit freeze, people can't get loans to buy any car, and this is the banking system that we just bailed out to free up credit

This whole bailout-mania is a big corporate fraud. Listen to the interview of Elizabeth Warren and then search out the just released TARP audit report and you will realize the tax payers are being flim-flammed for hundreds of billions going on trillions of dollars. It is "weapons of mass destruction" fear mongering hysteria all over again to mislead the public into thinking like sheep.

Couldn't agree more, "Goverment is the enemy of the people" - Rothbard

When people are just trying to survive they will not be able to fight the goverment on their next overseas war of conquest for more natural resources. Which of course will make a finacial killing for those gentlemen on Wall street.

Best regards

[Slinky]

Another example of Roger B's folly at GM. He bought EDS. So all the GM plants are stuck "buying" EDS products and services. Yup, GM pays itself (EDS) top dollar and if you think that isn't a sweet way to "cook the books".... They pay top dollar for used, inadequate equipment, computers that aren't compatible w/other computers in the plant .......

And when the GM BD wised up and brought in Stemple as CEO. A man who grew up in the auto industry, who started on the line and worked his way up, the BD then kowtowed to Wall Street because Stemple wasn't moviong fast enough for Wall Street. You don't restructure a company or an industry over night. At least Stemple KNEW the auto industry and wasn't just another "bean counter" intent on profits and today instead of quality and the future. Wall Street wants results yesterday, today isn't good enough and tomorrow is totally unsatisfactory and THAT has what has gotten us into the mess we are in today w/the help of an incompetent government and no little amount of wanting to keep up w/the Jones' on the part of too many American citizens, those foolish enough to buy into Reagan's "trickle down" economics. The abuse of power at the top and the abuse of credit at the bottom.

Another word for serfs is peons, spelled pee-ons.

[Slinky]

I stand corrected. I also had my figures wrong. From the Los Angeles Times:

That wage figure -- widely used by opponents of the auto industry bailout -- is not in fact the wage paid to current workers. It is an approximation of the costs of salaries and benefits for current and retired workers. After wage concessions in recent contracts, the UAW says its workers at GM, Ford and Chrysler plants range from $33 an hour for skilled trades to $14 an hour for new hires.

The Big Three automakers have higher labor costs primarily because they have operated factories in the U.S. much longer than their foreign counterparts, so have many more retirees receiving pension and healthcare payments, Block said.

Even if UAW workers at GM took a 20% pay cut, it would only save the company about $1.1 billion annually because the company's unionized workforce in the United States has decreased dramatically in recent years, to 55,000 ...