crud in my humidifier tank

[DreamStalker]

i'm no hydrologist, but my freshwater fish (and pool) chemistry taught me a few things - i believe we're really talking about water hardness here - distilled water (and apparently demineralized) are either boiled and collected, or filtered through ions, respectivelly, with the result that hey, it's pretty pure water! (and i'd say purer than bottled drinking water). From a pool/fishtank standpoint, the water is soft - it's looking to "grab" whatever chemicals it can - in the case of a pool, it strips the metal or plaster, etc. - expensive! if the water is overloaded with minerals, (calcium), it is then hard - and looks to leave a deposit.
i was told (and read) to use distilled water with the humidifier - so naturally the first night i used tap water! in the morning after i dumped it i saw mineral deposits (chlorine?) where the little bits of water were before they dried out - since then i've used distilled water - and as the water is soft i imagine it actually absorbed the minerals and eventually got them out of there - or diuted them or whatever.
i keep reading about 10% white vinegar, and i've used bleach with my bicycling water bottles and resevoirs for years - and including my kid's drinky bottles - bleach is actually fairly non-reactive (from what i've seen) and yeah, i use the laundry stuff - just rinse that puppy well
alternatively, if you're just looking at mineral deposits, i do know of CLR (calcium, lime, rust) remover that i've used on sinks in the past - i guess you can clean that out well also but i don't know if it would scratch or how it would be in a resevoir.
personally, i'd use bleach, and then distalled (or demineralized) water religiously after that - if you haven't scratched the plastic i'm betting over time the soft water will actually remove the deposits. just my .02

Pure distilled water is neither soft nor hard ... and it has a neutral pH

Chlorine bleach and CLR are hazardous chemicals ... DO NOT put them in your HH reservoir for any amount of cents

[BASCONERO]

Thank you all for reply to my question about "CRUD"!! For my HH I use demineralized water ( since I'm a CPAP user - 2004 ) and it work very good! My disinfectant is AMUCHINA solution that work well also for vegetables, fruits or other aliments:

[GaryGarland]

Pure distilled water is neither soft nor hard ... and it has a neutral pH

Chlorine bleach and CLR are hazardous chemicals ... DO NOT put them in your HH reservoir for any amount of cents

um, not to fight, but i do think distilled water is soft

[kopoloff]

This whole discussion about crud in humidifiers is very intriguing. I’m a new user, but I have a (slightly) scientific background, so I’ve been thinking about the whole issue. Bear in mind that these are opinions only, and are worth exactly what you’ve paid for them.

Firstly, distilled water. Distilled water is produced by boiling off water vapour from a body of water, and then condensing it back into liquid form. Water vapour is a gas, it contains molecules of water only. Water vapour cannot contain solids, salts, bacteria, virii etc., so it stands to reason that the newly condensed distilled water also contains none of the above, however it may contain some volatiles, such as alcohol (YEE HAH). So, newly distilled water is probably close to sterile.

Of course, it won’t stay that way for long once it’s exposed to the atmosphere, the stuff we breathe, which is a teeming mass of bugs of all sorts. Some of these bugs are good guys, harmless, even beneficial. Some are just benign and irrelevant, and then there are the nasty critters, the ones we should trust less than a politician during an election campaign. Of course, without nutrients they probably will struggle to survive.

So what is the crud. Our humidifiers work by distilling water. They don’t boil the water, but rely on the vapour pressure of water to evaporate off small amounts of water vapour from the surface, and entraining it in the airstream that the machine is pumping over the surface. Now, since the only thing that is in water vapour is water molecules, it stands to reason that all the impurities in the water, the aforementioned solids, salts, various bugs, grandpas old socks, will have to stay there. So as the water is evaporated off, and you keep refilling, the concentration of these residues increases, until eventually it forms that stuff that is known technically as crud. This is probably the same stuff that stains the collars on your best shirt when it spits out of the bottom of your iron.

Based on this, I think it is evident that the crud is probably best avoided. And if you use distilled water, then the buildup of crud will be very slow, although inevitable, unless you flush the tank periodically. Use tapwater and it will be build up much faster, but if you flush the tank regularly, say daily, then there will be no buildup.

I can’t see that the presence of crud can be responsible for diseases like cold and flu etc, since the only thing that can be entrained in the airstream is water vapour. It would be my contention that all the bugs and other nasties that cause the ailments are in the airstream when it enters the machine. Generally our body’s defences trap them before they get in and try to build an empire inside us, either with the little hairs and wrinkles in our sinuses.

Perhaps the fact that the airstream is being pumped into our system under pressure means that all the little nose hairs and sinus wrinkles are less effective in doing their job.

Funnily enough, I’ve been using tapwater in the humidifier, flushing it out every morning and the tank is crystal clear (admittedly it’s only been 2 months sinceI started) I suffer from hayfever at this time of year, usually a really solid and quite debilitating dose, yet so far this year there’s no sign of it except slightly itchy eyes. And no colds either.

Sorry for going on for so long – hope you got your money’s worth

K

[rested gal]

I only use distilled water in my humidifier as well, and i clean my humidifier as often as Rested Gal does

Which is.... practically the same (non)routine as Slinky:
viewtopic.php?p=320234#p320234

I use distilled water only and just add more as needed, rarely ever dumping out the unused water to start over. Tank stays crystal clear.

[CamiTampa]

This seems to come up so often here.

If you want to use distilled water then go ahead.

If you want to use RO water, go ahead. (I use RO,in HH as well as my salt water aquariums and fresh water aquariums.)

Neither is pure or sterile unless so stated on the label.

Like I stated in another thread, We use Pure and sterile water at work in the anthrax detectors and it is very, very expensive. A box, (yes box,) about 2.5 gallons costs over 25 dollars. They certify that collection and bottling are sterile.

Distilled water while not sterile will still be mineral free so as such will be good for your HH.

I lifted this quote from above and it is very true.

I can’t see that the presence of crud can be responsible for diseases like cold and flu etc, since the only thing that can be entrained in the air stream is water vapour. It would be my contention that all the bugs and other nasties that cause the ailments are in the airstream when it enters the machine. Generally our body’s defences trap them before they get in and try to build an empire inside us, either with the little hairs and wrinkles in our sinuses.

I want to add:
The very same nasties cause the crude, not the other way around.

If you use any water with minerals in it you will have to clean will vinegar to get out the calcium deposits.
If you don't want crud, (anything other than calcium deposits then clean your HH often.)
I clean mine every 2 days and it is spotless. if I go longer than a week or two it may get red slime growth, (Cyanobacteria - which could be black) or brown slime, (diatoms.) If it feels slippery then it needs to be cleaned.

[gasp]

...I clean mine every 2 days and it is spotless. if I go longer than a week or two it may get red slime growth, (Cyanobacteria - which could be black) or brown slime, (diatoms.) If it feels slippery then it needs to be cleaned.

Just thinking about different colored slime is enough to get me to dry out my humidifier every day! I just dump out what little water remains, invert to air dry - takes all of about two seconds. Nice info on the sterile water - thanks.

[DreamStalker]

This seems to come up so often here.

If you want to use distilled water then go ahead.

If you want to use RO water, go ahead. (I use RO,in HH as well as my salt water aquariums and fresh water aquariums.)

.... snip ...

I clean mine every 2 days and it is spotless. if I go longer than a week or two it may get red slime growth, (Cyanobacteria - which could be black) or brown slime, (diatoms.) If it feels slippery then it needs to be cleaned.

That is because RO (especially home-made RO) water doesn't remove all biologic contaminants ... like distilled water does. Read kopoloff's post above ... very well stated and accurate description of distilled water. The quote you lifted above in your post is indeed very true however.

Use distilled ... go ahead ... it is usually only about 65 cents a gallon at your local grocer (much more affordable than the cholera infested water in Zimbabwe).

[kopoloff1]

[/quote]I want to add:
The very same nasties cause the crude, not the other way around.
[/quote]

I'm not sure I agree with you here - I'm pretty certain the crud is just the minerals, solids and salts, all mixed up together in a concentrate. Perhaps someone could offer to "suck it and see"


I was thinking about this a little more, and it occurred to me that if the humidifier tank dried out, then all the dried residues in the bottom of the tank would quite likely be picked up by the airflow and pumped into our lungs. Now that may not be such an appetising thought.

I made a comment previously that I've been using tap water, emptying daily, and my tank is like new. I should point out that Melbourne water is pretty soft - low minerals, low turbidity, and trace amounts of chlorine and fluoride. Almost everyone drinks water straight out of the tap. This probably means that my experience is not representative, particularly compared to other places where water quality is not as good.

I will talk soon to a friend who is a microbiologist (a researcher with a global reputation) and see what he thinks.

Cheers

k

[ozij]

I want to add:
The very same nasties cause the crude, not the other way around.

<snip>
I made a comment previously that I've been using tap water, emptying daily, and my tank is like new. I should point out that Melbourne water is pretty soft - low minerals, low turbidity, and trace amounts of chlorine and fluoride. Almost everyone drinks water straight out of the tap. This probably means that my experience is not representative, particularly compared to other places where water quality is not as good.

<snip>

k

Reminds me of Tom Lehrer, and his unforgettable "Pollution", which starts out like this:

Time was when an American about to go abroad would be warned by his friends or the guidebooks not to drink the water. But times have changed and now a foreigner coming to this country might be offered the following advice.

If you visit American city,
You will find it very pretty.
Just two things of which you must beware:
Don't drink the water and don't breathe the air.

Pollution, pollution,
They got smog and sewage and mud.
Turn on your tap and get hot and cold running crud

[Ms Piggy]

Oh dear, I clean my humidifier tank probably every 4-5 days more or less as I get bits floating about in it if I leave it for longer. hey look a bit like soft broken up paper, as in tissues that break a part in water, but of course it isn't that. I do use distilled water. Does that sound like really bad stuff?

[kopoloff]

Don't waste it - there's probably a whole lot of good protein there. Maybe bake a cake with it.

My point is this - it's probably not as bad as it looks

Enjoy

K

[DannyP]

I have the resprinocs M series Machine w/heated Humidifier and when I get " Crud " in my Tank I always take my Tank apart and gently clean the slime out with Dish washing Liquid followed by a Vinegar /water solution. I am not Familiar with the S8 maachine so I probably am not much help there is cleaning advice.

[CamiTampa]

I want to add:
The very same nasties cause the crude, not the other way around.
[/quote]

I'm not sure I agree with you here - I'm pretty certain the crud is just the minerals, solids and salts, all mixed up together in a concentrate. Perhaps someone could offer to "suck it and see"[/quote]

I wasn't wasn't referring to the mineral deposits as the crud. I was referring to the crud that is red or brown and slimly, mold, algae, etc. as coming from the air.

Tap water will in most cases leave the mineral deposits, (aka scale.)

[catbirdgirl]

wow! I sparked something....

ANyway, I washed the tank out with 50/50 white vinegar and tap water and let it sit for about half a day. It got rid of a lot of the whitish stuff that stuck to the sides. The HH I use is annoying. I never seem to get all of the water drained out, nor can I reach in there to scrub the side. I am almost tempted to try bleach but I am not sure it would really rince out well. Same with dish soap.

I'm going to try washing equipment more often, and maybe I will try castile soap, as it rinses rather more easily than dish soap. Does anyone have suggestion of a flexible brush to get the walls with? hubby says he doesn't know of any chem lab brushes that would work, I don't think a toothbrush will work, what about a turkey baster brush? I don't know

Robin