Get on the machine or get off the highways!

Perchancetodream · Post by **Perchancetodream** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:37 pm

I am not usually in favor of government looking over our shoulders, but it really annoys me that there are so many people who give up on xPAP therapy and then continue to drive a car.

As I stated in a current thread, I don't care if people chose to die from the long term effects of untreated apnea, but I DO care that they are risking my life when they get behind the wheel on the highways we all have to share.

Do we need a MADD type organization to make driving while sleeping socially and legally unacceptable?

Susan

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:03 pm

We don't need the government involved in our lives, they already have too much say in our lives. All the government does for us is overspend our resources, and that is crontroled by lobbying.

What we need is to go back to natural selection, someone wanted to do drugs or drive drunk, natural selection would find them a big tree or power pole to drive into, gene pool drained. If they had a few friends with them doing the same thing, good better working drain.

The world is too safe, these people are living way too long, and remember they breed like rats.

Seat Belts and Air Bags, don't make smarter, they allow the dumber ones, to breed longer, and the few americans that still work for a living, pay all the bills for everyone in the U.S.

Let Natural Selection run free in America. As kids we rode in the back of pick-up trucks - shot guns for sport at the age of 8. We surived, but we didn't get drunk, or drugged up, or smoke, because of natural selection, we were smart enough to see the damage, and good it does.

Off The Box Jim

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Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:05 pm

It's fine if you want the gene pool cleaned out but I don't want to be killed in the process.

Perchancetodream · Post by **Perchancetodream** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:10 pm

Jim, I don't care if they kill themselves, I am concerned about the innocent bystanders, in other words: me and the people I love.

Aren't there driving restrictions imposed on epileptics? If a known medical condition impairs your ability to drive your license should be restricted accordingly. To protect the rest of us.

Susan

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:21 pm

You can't expect the "Bottom of the Gene Pool". (The government) to protect you, their only function is to grow government bigger, and protect their home, in the Government Gene Pool.

If someone falls asleep while driving, it our job to avoid hitting them, and maybe re-aim them to the tree or pole. Now. if they cause a wreck, then they have commited a offense, and should be punished to the max and not be allowed to drive, or own a car until treated sucessfully. But as with the drunk driver, they will continue to do so until locked up. I know the answer is for the few that still work to build more jails, and make the government bigger, Bact to the number one function of government.

And yes, I have drove sleepy, with no seat belt, and surived without hurting anyone, sometimes natural selection gets cheated. Back when we had the 55 MPH speed limit, I was the most unsafe, my best driving speed is 75 MPH, when I drive fast I'm more aleart and the white knuckle factor is working. Jim

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:56 pm

Another problem in this scenario is the undiagnosed apnea sufferers.
I don't like government looking over anybody's shoulders in some of these situations, either......but you have to prove they have apnea before you take action against them.

I think if drivers knew they were going to be scrutinized (or restricted) if they're diagnosed, then I can envision lots of people not going through the diagnosis procedures (sleep studies).

PROOF of not only compliance, but that the treatment is being effective is another issue that's come up on the forum before.
Heck, you could run your machine every night without being hooked up and it would keep adding to the hours used, but without software and the reports to back up the effectiveness of the therapy and that you were actually getting treatment would be a big problem.....especially for those with "basic" machines.

Would periodic sleep studies be mandatory to renew your drivers license?

Den

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:29 pm

What about me? I have moderate apnea, and I'm not compliant. I know I should be...I WANT to be, and I'm trying, but so far it hasn't worked. I'm mostly asymptomatic...just tired all the time. Only reason I got tested was my wife saw me sleeping and got worried. I wish I'd never been tested, then I wouldn't worry about it all the time. But here I am, noncompliant. Under this scenario, I would have lost my license, lost my job, my wife would have struggled to support us all, we'd have lost everything, declared bankruptcy, she'd have divorced my non-working ass, and I'd be in jail for non-payment of child support, or if she felt generous and didn't demand it, I'd just be homeless. This isn't just a black and white issue.

Perchancetodream · Post by **Perchancetodream** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:37 pm

Anonymous wrote:What about me? I have moderate apnea, and I'm not compliant. I know I should be...I WANT to be, and I'm trying, but so far it hasn't worked. I'm mostly asymptomatic...just tired all the time. Only reason I got tested was my wife saw me sleeping and got worried. I wish I'd never been tested, then I wouldn't worry about it all the time. But here I am, noncompliant. Under this scenario, I would have lost my license, lost my job, my wife would have struggled to support us all, we'd have lost everything, declared bankruptcy, she'd have divorced my non-working ass, and I'd be in jail for non-payment of child support, or if she felt generous and didn't demand it, I'd just be homeless. This isn't just a black and white issue.

It's black and white for people who are injured by those who are "tired all the time." Maybe the threat of losing your license would assist you is getting over it and using your machine.

It is not easy, but epileptics take medications with unpleasant side effects in order to retain their driving privileges. Why should we be held to a lesser standard? Our condition could be just as deadly.

Susan

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:59 pm

Perchancetodream wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What about me? I have moderate apnea, and I'm not compliant. I know I should be...I WANT to be, and I'm trying, but so far it hasn't worked. I'm mostly asymptomatic...just tired all the time. Only reason I got tested was my wife saw me sleeping and got worried. I wish I'd never been tested, then I wouldn't worry about it all the time. But here I am, noncompliant. Under this scenario, I would have lost my license, lost my job, my wife would have struggled to support us all, we'd have lost everything, declared bankruptcy, she'd have divorced my non-working ass, and I'd be in jail for non-payment of child support, or if she felt generous and didn't demand it, I'd just be homeless. This isn't just a black and white issue.
It's black and white for people who are injured by those who are "tired all the time." Maybe the threat of losing your license would assist you is getting over it and using your machine.

It is not easy, but epileptics take medications with unpleasant side effects in order to retain their driving privileges. Why should we be held to a lesser standard? Our condition could be just as deadly.

Susan

"Tired all the time" doesn't make me any more of a danger on the road than you are. Tired does not mean sleepy. And it's not a matter of "getting over it", it's a matter of working out equipment problems.

I wish my world was as full of absolutes as yours is.

FreeLancer74 · Post by **FreeLancer74** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:03 pm

I understand that the "I HATE CPAP" thread brought all this up. I wish that everyone would grow up and be adult about their needs and medical necessities too, but we can't MAKE people do everything. We don't want a facist regime that hunts non-compliant medical patients. I think you guys (and now me) provide the best solution for people who are looking for help and are not getting it from their doctors or local equipment providers. You guys are open, and friendly and share all your experience and insite on a mostly bypassed area of medicine (there is a better word than bypassed, but I can't think of it right now).

You could say the same things about people who get the Flu and don't take all their antibiotics. Because of them, the virus mutates and becomes resilient to those antibiotics which makes us have to pay more for the development of more powerful drugs to treat the mutated strains.

I think we just need to provide the best information and help people reach a personal understanding of why it is important to be comliant and how they can best reach that compliance with todays technology. Hopefully someone will build the better mousetrap soon and clunky masks and hoses will be a thing of the past like Mercury baths. (well, ok, Mercury is bad, but they didn't know that back in the olden days).

Perchancetodream · Post by **Perchancetodream** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:17 pm

I agree with those who feel that regulating non compliant drivers would be a bureaucratic nightmare, so how about imposing stiffer penalties for those who cause accidents while driving while sleepy?

As a society we just don't seem to take this problem seriously. Probably because everyone has been tired and most of us have even driven that way. It doesn't change the pain of our victims or their families.

That pain is absolute.

Susan

sleepycarol · Post by **sleepycarol** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:33 pm

How many of us in our "tired" state before cpap drove and not remember the drive to where ever they were going?

Tired slows down our reflexes and that is a problem we aren't as alert as we should be. We don't respond as rapidly as we should.

I have mixed feelings and don't think there is a good solution. How many of us went years without knowing what was causing us to be so tired and sleepy? I didn't realize I had sleep apnea as there was a whole host of other things it "could" have been -- depression, being over weight, certain meds, etc.

Yes, those drivers need to be held accountable but having big brother watching over our shoulders is not the answer.

MRH · Post by **MRH** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:38 pm

I will throw another thing in on this... Define how you would determine what sleepy is? How tired would you have to be to be considered too tired to drive? What if the person was sick, and feeling tired? And maybe not even have any sleep apnea. There are so many things that can make sleepy people, so how could you even draw a line to enforce this type of thing? And what could you use a gauge to say, "don't drive you are too tired!"

Just wondering,
Mark

Dgrendahl · Post by **Dgrendahl** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:39 pm

Well as for me, I agree, let natural selection take its course. When they are gone, that is a few less mouths to feed. We already have too many carbon-units on this tiny planet, vying for the quickly depleting resources. What needs to happen is that someone needs to figure out a way to stop some of these "bunnies" from over-breeding!

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:51 pm

Government can't do what they are suppose to do right as it is now (national security, public education, and healthcare). Having them get involved regulating OSA patient driving is just something else to tax us for and provide information for the insurance company so they can increase the premiums and decrease coverage.

Bad idea ... spend your time, effort, and money educating people about OSA treatment, not BIG BROTHER monitoring!

Get on the machine or get off the highways!

Get on the machine or get off the highways!

Non-compliant CPAPers