Blue LEDs on M Series (Purkinje effect)

[Guest]

who sleeps with their eyes open to see blue LED lights anyway?

[Perchancetodream]

Well, I decided to try the yellow filter anyway, as it seems that the glasses improve eyesight by blocking the blue light.

Of course, I didn't have any yellow cellophane which should have ended the experiment then and there. But I did have an almost empty plastic Rx bottle that was large enough, when cut in half, to cover the offensive numerals of the clock. Since I do have pink saran wrap, I used a few layers of that first, and then taped the amber pill bottle half over it.

What resulted was a much dimmer clock face. No longer did it throw shadows against the wall of our bedroom, but it remained bright enough to read in the middle of the night.

I still think we need a new alarm clock, but until then this jury rigged fix will work.

Now, to find some yellow or amber cellophane for all of the other blue LEDs...

Susan

[geoDoug]

We owned a sailboat for 15 years and loved to sail at night because there were few people on the lake and we could also avoid the hot sun.

All of the instrument lights were red. We were told this was because red light will not cause your iris to partially shut off light to your pupil. Of course we wanted our eyes wide open to be able to see objects on the water.

I don't know if it's the same reason, but I suspect it may be. Skygazers use red lights. Sometimes they just put red cellophane over a flashlight. Having a red light handy results in your eyes not having to readjust to the darkness every time you look at a starmap or fumble for a different telescope eyepiece.

Besides, it's kinda cool.

I remember going out on a sailboat cruise in Monterey Bay to see comet Hyakutake (sp?). That was an experience I won't soon forget! All the lights on the sailboat were red before they turned the lights off altogether for this very reason.

Doug.

[socknitster]

who sleeps with their eyes open to see blue LED lights anyway?

I don't know what planet you are from, but most people I know can tell if a light is on with their eyes closed. Your eyelid is not opaque! LOL! Even with eyes closed, I can tell if my blue led lights are covered with my Resmed information brochure or not.

Jen

[Perchancetodream]

We owned a sailboat for 15 years and loved to sail at night because there were few people on the lake and we could also avoid the hot sun.

All of the instrument lights were red. We were told this was because red light will not cause your iris to partially shut off light to your pupil. Of course we wanted our eyes wide open to be able to see objects on the water.

I don't know if it's the same reason, but I suspect it may be. Skygazers use red lights. Sometimes they just put red cellophane over a flashlight. Having a red light handy results in your eyes not having to readjust to the darkness every time you look at a starmap or fumble for a different telescope eyepiece.

Besides, it's kinda cool.

I remember going out on a sailboat cruise in Monterey Bay to see comet Hyakutake (sp?). That was an experience I won't soon forget! All the lights on the sailboat were red before they turned the lights off altogether for this very reason.

Doug.

When we were volunteers with the National Park Service we got to do ride alongs with the law enforcement officers who had covered all of the interior vehicle lights with red to protect their night vision. They even had red flash lights.

And that is why I used the pink plastic wrap on the blue alarm clock. It helped a little, but the light was still too bright. The amber color of the pill bottle plus the pink layers of saran wrap seem to have done the trick.

Susan

[drummergirl410]

An interesting read... it's funny because I actually also like the color blue and blue light. People who are visually impaired, like myself, tend to favor blue because of a physiological reason caused by the visual impairment. I always enjoyed the light produced blue LED's, although not close up and for prolonged periods of time. But for a few minutes it seems really soothing. However, it does seem counterproductive to put blue LED"s on a machine to help you sleep when in actuallity it can make it worse instead. I have a Resmed machine, so the lights on it aren't an issue. The only time I had trouble with this was when I tried a s8 Compact and the backlight never went off! Now that was really annoying and it wasn't even that bright! Guess I'm not missing out on the blue LED's.

[fredpb]

Red light at night should not disturb you. The military uses it to light up some areas at night in facilities, ships, etc. It will not effect your night vision.

I insure any digital clock I use at home uses red. Any other color seems just too bright.

[stanta]

The blue highbeam indicater on my Honda VTX1300R motorcycle is VERY annoying. It is set in a red lighted speedometer and is about the only thing you can see. I may try to change it out for a red or green light soon.

[Guest]

Folks:

I LIKE the nice blue lights!

But I agree they often seem too bright in the middle of the night.

For years, I think it has been common for moderately expensive and up bed-side electronics like alarm clocks to have user brightness adjustments and sometimes a sensor so they automatically adjust brightness depending on room lighting. My 6 year-old $60 alarm clock does both.

As a tekkie, I can say that it is very easy for computerized boxes such as these xPAP machines to adjust the brightness of LED lamps over a full range -- if someone thinks of it in advance and plans accordingly. The most likely problem I see is providing a user adjustment that's both damage-resistant and convenient for the user. The standards for medical equipment are much higher than for regular consumer electronics, and this can make things as simple as brightness adjustments much more complicated. At the same time, users get upset if the process of adjustment is to complicated -- or requires them to wake up too much.

I plan to try masking part of each button with some high-quality adhesive tape, maybe taken from the first-aid kit. But I'm worried about adhesive gunk problems. Maybe an opaque, flexible plastic overlay with three holes punched in it, each a bit smaller than the buttons....

Henry

[Bearded_One]

I just got a new M series autoPAP, and one of the first things I did was put a strip of 3M electrical tape over the buttons.

I have NO need to see those buttons. None of my previous CPAPs had ANY lights on them, let alone nasty, bright, blue LEDs.

[goose]

Just sent a note to Respironics asking them how they can justify the design, what they're going to do to fix it and how is my present machine going to be repaired?? Recall to the DME???
Ha....Wanna bet they do nothing at all!!

I'm sure there is information that can be used to poo poo this study -- statistics and study results can usually support any conclusion depending on who is interpreting the data and how....

I like blue lights, but these are far too bright for a device that is supposed to assist in sleeping......I think I'll go look for some yellow cellophane -- great idea!!!! I do need to see the buttons so that I can use them in the middle of the night -- they don't have to be blue!!!!

As an aside and in support of other info in this thread, while I was in the Navy, all "dark" lights were red. Any spaces that were dark (CIC etc) used red lights. Below decks, any passages that were left dark all the time were lit with red lamps. Red does not adversely affect night vision so if you needed to do a watch above deck after dark, your eyes were already in tune to the light conditions....

cheers
goose

[hen3ry]

Folks:

I LIKE the nice blue lights!

But I agree they often seem too bright in the middle of the night.

For years, I think it has been common for moderately expensive and up bed-side electronics like alarm clocks to have user brightness adjustments and sometimes a sensor so they automatically adjust brightness depending on room lighting. My 6 year-old $60 alarm clock does both.

As a tekkie, I can say that it is very easy for computerized boxes such as these xPAP machines to adjust the brightness of LED lamps over a full range -- if someone thinks of it in advance and plans accordingly. The most likely problem I see is providing a user adjustment that's both damage-resistant and convenient for the user. The standards for medical equipment are much higher than for regular consumer electronics, and this can make things as simple as brightness adjustments much more complicated. At the same time, users get upset if the process of adjustment is to complicated -- or requires them to wake up too much.

I plan to try masking part of each button with some high-quality adhesive tape, maybe taken from the first-aid kit. But I'm worried about adhesive gunk problems. Maybe an opaque, flexible plastic overlay with three holes punched in it, each a bit smaller than the buttons....

Henry

[socknitster]

I'm sure there is information that can be used to poo poo this study -- statistics and study results can usually support any conclusion depending on who is interpreting the data and how....

Goose,

I agree completely. This study might be complete bunk--but I don't care. The bottom line is: my husband loves ME on cpap, but hates my machine and its blue lights. It bothers him and disrupts his sleep. They only mildly annoy me. I'm going to see if I can find some yellow cellophane. I'm hesitant to use electrical tape because I don't want adhesive residue--my machine is still a rental and I may decide to trade it for a different BRAND. One without crazy blue lights.

Jen

[goose]

Hey Jen,
I don't really notice the lights myself -- except when I'm awake
My wife has mentioned they are somewhat annoying, but they do seem to dim after the machine starts up....still too bright in my estimation.....I use red for astronomy and other night vision requirements.

I have found that rubbing alcohol will generally remove any of the tape residue from medical adhesive tapes. (It will also remove sharpie pen from most non-porous surfaces!!!).
Acetone will remove most all residues but may have an adverse affect on the plastic that the machine is made of (like starting a melting process). Besides acetone is one of those "methyl ethyl terrible" kinda chemicals.

I'm still looking for some yellow cellophane. Seems like the most benign fix, though small holes in some kind of membrane would probably work -- but the light would still be blue.

Hey Respironics -- what's wrong with red????

cheers
goose

[JimW]

Regarding red lights - there's a reason vehicle taillights are red. So it's not just in the military or in special applications. If I recall correctly from years ago, the rods in the retina, which provide us with night vision, also perceive red light well. Any other color affects them so that they are temporarily not as effective. (Or something like that.)