Updated: Tribe has Spoken

[blarg]

Blarg, no fair, you finished posting your reply a mere six minutes after I finished posting. So, I suspect it didn't get a thorough reading from you.

You're entirely correct. I guess I just don't think the situation is as complicated as you do.

Some say you should read a letter as carefully as it is written.

Yup. Some people do say that. Ok, ok, I'm not trying to cut down your effort here, but again, I just don't see this as a very complicated situation.

It may speak volumes to the current situation, but what does it actually say? Volumes of what?

That's actually what I was trying to say in a delicate way. Volumes of not much.

The fact that I spent the time needed to compile this post speaks to my desire to be able to stay here without feeling like the pinata of NHE's party.

Well, I guess I can only parrot others here. You can stay here and NHE can say whatever he wants, but how you feel about it is entirely up to you. All I'm trying to say here is that it's an internet forum, we're bound to disagree, and we're also bound to jump down each others' throats from time to time (or all the time, see me and sleepinginseattle).

Equating the time needed to compile the post with the actual content of the post, and the need to provide a carefully considered response to it, seems a bit simplistic, but that's just my opinion.

Of course it's simplistic. It's actually a fairly simple situation. You feel attacked, and rightfully so. So now what? I'm sure he feels the same way.

Blarg, have you seen what passes for communication?

UN communication or communication?

Sometimes watching two people fight is one of the best ways that others can size up an argument. Sure, the straight up personal attacks don't help much, but they discredit the other side. So, if it were me, I would attempt to ignore them and address the ideas. If that doesn't work for you, then maybe you should simply ignore the post in its entirety. Final word doesn't mean winner here, and as much as I hate to admit it to myself sometimes, people around here really can think for themselves. Not every single piece of info needs to be addressed.

It is incendiary taunts that arrive without an genuine attempt to communicate. I have ample enough evidence that dialogue is not what NHE is seeking when he posts to my threads. I'd ask you to read carefully what I have written, and judge by the content of it, not by the quantity of time required to compose it.

You have evidence that he's not seeking dialogue. I don't understand why I would need to read all of it to be swayed to your opinion. I am swayed to your opinion. I don't see why I need to read all of that above except so you can say, "See how nasty NHE is? I told you so." I'm not interested in personal attacks.

So, I'd have to dispute the notion that further contact is in the best interest of this board. It certainly is not in mine.

Well that's really easy then. Don't make a post asking for peoples' opinions when you already know the answer. If you don't want to respond to the guy, then all you have to do is stop responding to the guy.

It might make for an interesting psychological experiment as you say you enjoy, but I am not here to be a lab rat. But, we see.

Oh, I don't think this is much of an experiment. Emotional flaring maybe, but yeah. I guess I'd question the reason you made the post in the first place.

I wish you had voted yes, because, as I said, the only acceptable option for me is to move on.

My mom always said "Don't ask a question you don't want to hear the answer to." It's really really easy. You just stop talking to him and the best way to start that, unfortunately, is not compiling a tome of his sins against you and posting it in a new thread.

I'm not blackmailing anybody, but then again, nobody should be forced to "communicate" with anybody else. There are some folks that may annoy you enough that you would cross the street to avoid having to talk to them.

I agree entirely. I'm not forcing you to do anything. You asked my opinion and I gave it. If you really feel you'd cross the street to avoid talking to NHE, then there's not much of a point in running a poll about it.

In this case, I have no further interest in NHE and his posts, and I only wish the feeling were mutual. It is a decision that I have made in my own best interests, and I do not consider it to be worth revisiting.

I'm still wondering why you asked then, if not to be able to bring up NHE's sins. Frankly, I have the highest respect for you (still do) and your posts. What NHE says stands on its own, and believe me, if you ignore him, I won't be offended in the slightest.

I've no interest in "sitting in a corner" so I can reconsider a situation that I have spent so long considering. Others can judge for themselves, and that's all that I ask.

Cool. It's really simple then. We've been judging for ourselves all along, and I hope it shows.

Then again, it can be easy to write things off as "not personal" when indeed that would seem to be their intent. Sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar, to paraphrase Sigmund.

Yup. It can. Since it's obviously personal to you, then I'm just confused why you asked.

Perhaps this is more a psychological experiment that you're putting yourself through than you realize.

And I'm not mad at you in the slightest, nor am I offended, or anything of the sort. Nor have I lost any respect for you at all. I'm just writing directly in the hopes that you'll see my point.

[Snooter]

Geeeze and here I was worried you guys were going to kick me off the island.

Maybe we need to lighten up a little. If someone is bugging you, just tell them to bug off and the tribe will stick up for you. At least I will.

Snooter

[jules]

First of all I did not read this thread. I think I saved myself a good half hour of reading that way.

I did skim a few parts. I did not vote but after seeing what I did, I am very tempted to vote for spite.



================================================================

People will disagree here as is the nature of forums.

Someone who claims to be a MD and boasts that should know better than to post a poll such as this

[Alisha]

First of all, here's another BIG HUG for Kathy. You've had a tough road and you deserve better. I am praying God will shower you with blessings the rest of your days and send angels to surround and protect you in all that comes against you. We love you.

Dr., I also agree that you are overreacting. I was saddened as I read some of your posts where it seemed you wanted to put NightHawkeye down and I believe we all know you two agree on little. Don't you think it's now time to let it go and move on?

WillSucceed wrote: "Oh for the love of Pete! Are you kidding with this? This is a chat forum, not the UN. Relax! ........ Silly poll, silly, silly poll." WillSucceed is right on, IMHO.

Offerocker wrote: "(and why do you expect us do "dictate"(via your poll) to Nighthawkeye something you are proposing?
This is a "free country" for most things, and this Forum is for ALL MEMBERS." Offerocker is also right on, IMHO

Regards,

Alisha

[neversleeps]

My simple proposal to [NightHawkeye] is this:
Henceforth, my posts are invisible to you. Your posts are invisible to me. Let’s pretend.

Otherwise, I think I will just ease off into the ether, not bitter, but wiser. I have more to offer, but not in the current environment. I need to be in a place where the village elders rise up in righteous indignation when someone acts the fool, poisoning the waterhole.

The problem, DrB, is that the “current environment” will never change. This is an open forum and there are no limitations on who can post or what they can post; accurate or not. Generally, the inaccuracies are caught and corrected. But, as for what you’re up against; dealing with a particular individual who beleaguers every post you make; I don't know what to tell you, Doc. I don't know of a solution for that. There will always be people here who have only negative things to say about doctors and the medical establishment as a whole. I regret you have found yourself in the unenviable position of being forced to defend an entire industry. I regret you feel your ability to contribute here is hampered by anyone. It shouldn't be that way.

Sleep apnea is a tough topic, but the venue itself allows unsubstantiated statements, vague generalities and all manner of pseudo science to pop up. When no one chooses to challenge the obvious inaccuracy, or mention the leap in logic, then we are left with a mish mash of truth, fiction, and unknowns.

There is no doubt this happens, which is why hearing your perspective is so valuable. You seem dismayed that more of us don't challenge the unsubstantiated statements, vague generalities, pseudo-science, obvious inaccuracies and leaps in logic. Maybe more of us should. I guess, ideally, we always should. So, why don't we? Hmm... Good question. I know this sounds bad, but I think sometimes it's just not worth the effort. I suppose it depends on who you're dealing with, what the subject is and how impassioned you are about it. It is inevitable, at some time or another, we will all come across someone who digs in their heels and puts up a wall impervious to reason. When we’re facing that wall, we have to decide for ourselves if it's worth continuing to hammer away at it. I know some feel it is always worth the fight and those people will never walk away. I know others feel the hammering is even worse than the wall and those people will always walk away. Then, there are those who know from previous experience how the story's going to end (or, in fact, that it will never end) and they have no desire to contribute a chapter to a lousy book. Those people choose to avoid and ignore it. My guess, drbandage, is that's why you don't see the righteous indignation you're looking for from the village elders.

I understand why you’re considering abandoning this forum based upon the situation which spawned this thread. I hope you'll reconsider. In the past, we have bemoaned the fact we don't get more input here from doctors and we have questioned why so few choose to participate in this (usually) wonderful forum. I think we have our answer.

[Bonnie]

I did read the thread and now I'm late for work......

When my kids were young they called me "The Great Orator". Seems like I never was able to answer a simple question with a simple answer. "No...you can't go because" became a 4 minute explanation. DrB, I'm passing my title to you. You have a way with the english language but you could have said what you did with a lot less words.

A poll for this is not the solution. Both you and NHE make contributions to the forum, let us decide what we do with the information provided without all the personal negativity.


I realized that you have the right to interpret anyone's opinions/comments as you want and posting your thoughts about them. Having said that though, I am having a hard time understanding your on line diagnosis of NHE's mental health by his postings. It comes across as mean spirited, I think you stepped over the line on this one.

[KimberlyinMN]

Wellll... I've always followed the old saying of "If you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all." And if someone says something not nice to ME, I ignore them. (At least online, in person, I just stare at them until they are uncomfortable.)

I didn't vote.

Kimberly

[Slinky]

Enuff's enuff. DrB, I hope you elect to stay. But frankly, this thread has gone on way more than long enough and I won't be visiting it again. I take into consideration what you have to say, what NighthawkEye has to say and what others have to say in various posts in this forum and others - and then I do as I dibblety-darn well please and decide for myself. I detest bickering yet I'm as good as anyone at griping and complaining when I'm feeling grumpy.

Enuff's enuff.

[roster]

Hey, we still enjoy cock fighting in Georgia. Why should I deny you some fun?

Cock-a-doodle-doo

[Guest]

I think it's better that they drink beer.

In heaven there is no beer
That's why we drink it here
And when we're gone from here
Our friends wwill be drinking all the beer

[snorin747]

*yawn*

[leaveye]

Dude. I mean, DUDE! I thought Obsession was a fragrance from Calvin Klein!

[Bobshouse]

Lot of old folk set in their ways here. I don't take anything personal, I've got way far to much other "real life" stuff to be concerned with.

People often miss the point of a message or don't completely understand where your coming from.