Severe mixed apnea at the age of 35

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 11:48 am

Herbert wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:58 am
Sorry, I've been on a business trip. Let me catch up:

- "with 35" is indeed a literal translation > bad English and supposed to mean at the age of 35... could I or a mod change that?

You can edit the thread's header, and I think anyone can edit the subject of their response -- I've edited mine, for example.

I was doubting the result in the SL so much, that they brought into their oberservation room and showed me the raw data (eeg, straps, breath, snoring, video) and even printed out the graphs showing the periodic pattern of the chest belt etc. (I think at some point of this thread I posted this as screenshot)

They showed you snoring?

Herbert · Post by **Herbert** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 12:02 pm

I just wanted to emphasize that they showed me their raw data an there they pointed to what was showing the chest movement recorded by the belt which was basically looking just like the breathing pattern when my resmed shows CSR in the morning.

Regarding snoring: Yes, the graph they showed me was indicating that I was snoring during most of the night. But they could not show me any sound file or so...

Rubicon · Post by **Rubicon** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:39 pm

Herbert wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:58 am
What's also unclear to me: How does the periodicity (which is obviously there at any pressure level I tried so far) fit to the thesis?

Well since you asked...

A critical point is that all that central stuff also occurred during a period of NO xPAP. If the original NSPG is correct then it really can't be TECSA cause they didn't "Emerge"-- they were always there.

Not wishing to debate the technical definition of "medication":

Herbert wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:32 am
Medication: NONE at all...

one "thesis" that would explain everything is chronic opiate use (legal or otherwise).

Rubicon · Post by **Rubicon** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:41 pm

That said, treatment will be the same (ASV) so in the big scheme of things, don't make much difference.

Herbert · Post by **Herbert** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:50 pm

I think I took some sort of opiates exactly two times in my life. first time during my year studying in the US while I had a really bad cough and I think I remember it was part of the cough syrup i took for 7 days or so. and then 7 years ago when I had my tonsilles removed I got tillidin 3 or 4 times in the hospital. And that's it. To me that doesn't qualify as heavy abuse...

Other than that... I had a habit of smoking weed during college. But that's also far gone.

Yep... the periodicity before xPAP also worries me the most tbh. Some of the somnologists and even my GP told me that a "high chemosensitivity" could be the reason and they have experienced this quite often with younger males. But as I never read of it anywhere during all my research my guess is that they just wanted to calm me down and prevent too much worrying. @Rubicon: As you worked in this field, can you confirm or is this totally made up?

Rubicon · Post by **Rubicon** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 3:14 pm

Herbert wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:50 pm
Some of the somnologists and even my GP told me that a "high chemosensitivity" could be the reason and they have experienced this quite often with younger males.

On no xPAP?

Ask them to show you a couple dozen if it happens so often.

Herbert · Post by **Herbert** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 3:20 pm

did you have any case like that at all?

also I'm wondering... how accurate are those home tests and do they differentiate between central and obstructive? I did two of them. of course without eeg and legs movement, but with ecg, the straps around my chest and belly, the nose tube and the oxy clip. AHI was 10 and 12 so ultra low compared to my first SL night and the docs never said anything about centrals

Rubicon · Post by **Rubicon** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 4:03 am

Herbert wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 13, 2023 3:20 pm
did you have any case like that at all?

Why would I have cases? See previous posts, I am a "World Traveler".

also I'm wondering... how accurate are those home tests and do they differentiate between central and obstructive? I did two of them. of course without eeg and legs movement, but with ecg, the straps around my chest and belly, the nose tube and the oxy clip. AHI was 10 and 12 so ultra low compared to my first SL night and the docs never said anything about centrals

Can't tell w/o seeing the edfs, but frankly this is starting to impinge on my fishing time.

Some of the somnologists and even my GP told me that a "high chemosensitivity" could be the reason and they have experienced this quite often with younger males. But as I never read of it anywhere during all my research my guess is that they just wanted to calm me down and prevent too much worrying.

So when you get the list of a couple dozen of their cases, make sure you get age, complete NPSG and at least 5 year follow up.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9272740/

Herbert · Post by **Herbert** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 4:16 am

Thanks for the article... very promising...

So any sense in further trials here or should I just accept my fate, try asv in November and that's it.

Rubicon · Post by **Rubicon** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 5:17 am

What fate is that?

Stuff changes all the time. Your HSTs with low AHIs are evidence of that.

Idiopathic anything means no known cause. Not "no cause". No known cause. And depending on who's doing the looking, idiopathic could be caused by laziness.

Try the EPR, what do have to lose vs gain?

Get the NPSG data to look and confirm the centrals are centrals. That said, they are probably centrals because they disappear in REM. They should have gotten worse. But you don't know unless you look. Doveryai, no proveryai.

Herbert · Post by **Herbert** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 9:36 am

The fate seems to be to have a strong indication for a severe illness but not receiving a diagnosis which opens the door for every sh*t I read about. cardiological and neurological nightmares mostly.

And I'm quite clear what idiopathic means. it's not like I think that's my mental resort or sth.

The part about REM means that real centrals dissappear in REM? if they are the suspected hidden osas they should have increased in REM?

Herbert · Post by **Herbert** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:51 pm

After the last few nights it has become a bit clearer to me that AHI might depend on how deep and uninterrupted I sleep. Strangely high AHI seems to be linked with subjectively felt "good" sleep.

This night my sleep felt quite deep only with a few turns. So overall it felt more resting. Still AHI is quite high and looking to the breathing pattern it seems very "wild". https://sleephq.com/public/8c743de9-c1c ... ab272be81f

Then the two nights before have been better in AHI, but didn't feel as good compared to tonight. Also felt like I woke up more. https://sleephq.com/public/60e74f5f-a81 ... 685626c3ab

So it seems like this is all random,like there is no logic behind when I will have a "good" night and when it will be a bad one. Before both nights I did a good amount sports during the day, ate well, had the same sleep routine.. Still results differ by a lot.

Any ideas on the underlying mechanisms? or is it reall just random?

Severe mixed apnea at the age of 35

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Re: Severe mixed apnea at the age of 35