My AHI is really low, but I still feel tired a lot

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Pugsy
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Re: My AHI is really low, but I still feel tired a lot

Post by Pugsy » Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:01 pm

When you do your report images could you include the AHI bar graph on the left side please?
Also...turn off the AHI graph (that's the one under flow rate) along with the mask pressure graph so that can have these graphs on the right side all included in one image. To turn off those graphs go to Preferences then graphs tab and remove check mark for those graphs. Just turns them off...you can always turn them back on but those graphs are really redundant graphs and are not needed.
Events graph on the top
Flow rate graph
Pressure graph (not mask pressure though)
Leak graph
Flow limitation graph
Snore graph only if it is exciting
You can resize the graphs by hovering mouse cursor over the bottom line of the graph until you see a little short double line..then click and drag to resize. Sleepyhead will remember it so you only have to do it once.
Though I will be honest...I don't think you are going to find the answer in your software reports because I think the problem is very likely related to your meds.
fmj13 wrote:I feel like I am aware a lot of the so-called sleep time.
Do you wake up often? Or just think you wake up? Does this happen often? Like more than a handful of times?

fluvoxamine
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/mono-7095-FL ... genumber=6
see the side effects..these scream out to me as potential culprits in both your sleep architecture problems and daytime symptoms

Chronic Trouble Sleeping
Drowsiness

and other sites mention the same things
http://www.medicinenet.com/fluvoxamine-oral/article.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluvoxamine

Meds of this type (SSRIs) often cause these same symptoms..this isn't the only med that does this. It's common and why one of the first question I ask is about meds. Is the med causing the problem or is the problem that the med is supposed to be helping causing the problem (that is likely where your doctor is leaning)...we don't know but the med could very well be making it worse.
SSRIs are known to mess with sleep architecture (your normal stages of sleep and this might be what you are experiencing when you say you feel like you are aware of stuff when you should be in sleep. Maybe it is preventing the deeper stages of sleep and you are staying mostly in light sleep and if you don't get those deeper stages of sleep and in the needed % ...it's real hard to feel good the next day.

So I would have a long talk with the doctor about the meds maybe being a factor in how you are not sleeping so great and how you feel during the day. We see this all the time with various meds...not all sleeping problems are related to sleep apnea and the machine can't fix a problem that is not related to sleep apnea.
You already take it in the AM..so I don't know if you can take it even earlier in the AM...or maybe talk with doctor about dosage reduction or what options you might have.
Read up on SSRIs and their effect on sleep architecture...it's not pretty but not taking them isn't pretty either...so read up on it and talk to your doctor about all this and whatever you might want to do to try to address the issue.

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fmj13
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Re: My AHI is really low, but I still feel tired a lot

Post by fmj13 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:59 pm

Pugsy wrote:When you do your report images could you include the AHI bar graph on the left side please?
Also...turn off the AHI graph (that's the one under flow rate) along with the mask pressure graph so that can have these graphs on the right side all included in one image. To turn off those graphs go to Preferences then graphs tab and remove check mark for those graphs. Just turns them off...you can always turn them back on but those graphs are really redundant graphs and are not needed.
Events graph on the top
Flow rate graph
Pressure graph (not mask pressure though)
Leak graph
Flow limitation graph
Snore graph only if it is exciting
You can resize the graphs by hovering mouse cursor over the bottom line of the graph until you see a little short double line..then click and drag to resize. Sleepyhead will remember it so you only have to do it once.
Though I will be honest...I don't think you are going to find the answer in your software reports because I think the problem is very likely related to your meds.
Here's most of what you suggested (the pressure graphs are worthless, since the rates are static):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/109690148@N08/11020602624/
AHI bar graph

http://www.flickr.com/photos/109690148@N08/11020530236/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/109690148@N08/11020438705/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/109690148@N08/11020530586/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/109690148@N08/11020439345/

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Todzo
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Re: My AHI is really low, but I still feel tired a lot

Post by Todzo » Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:43 pm

fmj13 wrote:My AHI levels are really low, but I still don't feel I am getting much in the way of deep sleep. The last 3 nights, I have been really tired not long after getting home from work and basically feel asleep watching TV a couple of hours before I would normally go to sleep. Today, I got up in the morning tired and ended up taking a 2+ hour nap with my BiPap. What else can I do?
Well if your job is not physically strenuous you might take a nice long walk in the evening somewhere. Sometimes we simply do not get enough exercise in our day to sleep well at night.
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ReadyforRest
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Re: My AHI is really low, but I still feel tired a lot

Post by ReadyforRest » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:28 am

In addition to what Pugsy said about your medication, I'm wondering what size nasal pillows you're using. You seem to have a lot of prolonged leaks that are getting up near the maximum leak number of 20/L for your machine. Above that, your machine won't effectively treat your apneas. Even though your leak lines are below that number, in this report of yours: http://www.flickr.com/photos/109690148@N08/11020530586/ it looks like your apnea clusters are occurring during times of high, prolonged leaks. That will make you feel tired as well. I suspect that the problem is medication related, but your leaks seem to be significant, so if it were me, I would try to deal with those as well.

This kind of leaking could be caused by the nasal pillows being sized wrong (not large enough or too large) or by you moving around, dislodging them for periods of time against your head pillow. Another reason is that the nasal pillows are getting old (and soft and too flexible) and need to be replaced. Or that they need more cleaning with cpap wet wipes each night. You could also try using O-rings around the necks of the nasal pillows which helps to stiffen the neck and keeps them more stable, so more firmly in place in your nares. Search O-rings here on the forum.

Do you use a hose holder? With a nasal pillow mask, particularly one where the short hose doesn't route to the top of the head, moving around in bed can drag on the hose and yank the nasal pillows out of your nose, causing leaks. A hose holder will lift the hose away from your body and allow you more freedom of movement with less drag on the hose to dislodge your mask. Just some thoughts that may help.

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fmj13
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Re: My AHI is really low, but I still feel tired a lot

Post by fmj13 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:17 pm

ReadyforRest wrote:In addition to what Pugsy said about your medication, I'm wondering what size nasal pillows you're using. You seem to have a lot of prolonged leaks that are getting up near the maximum leak number of 20/L for your machine. Above that, your machine won't effectively treat your apneas. Even though your leak lines are below that number, in this report of yours: http://www.flickr.com/photos/109690148@N08/11020530586/ it looks like your apnea clusters are occurring during times of high, prolonged leaks. That will make you feel tired as well. I suspect that the problem is medication related, but your leaks seem to be significant, so if it were me, I would try to deal with those as well.

This kind of leaking could be caused by the nasal pillows being sized wrong (not large enough or too large) or by you moving around, dislodging them for periods of time against your head pillow. Another reason is that the nasal pillows are getting old (and soft and too flexible) and need to be replaced. Or that they need more cleaning with cpap wet wipes each night. You could also try using O-rings around the necks of the nasal pillows which helps to stiffen the neck and keeps them more stable, so more firmly in place in your nares. Search O-rings here on the forum.

Do you use a hose holder? With a nasal pillow mask, particularly one where the short hose doesn't route to the top of the head, moving around in bed can drag on the hose and yank the nasal pillows out of your nose, causing leaks. A hose holder will lift the hose away from your body and allow you more freedom of movement with less drag on the hose to dislodge your mask. Just some thoughts that may help.
My hose is too short for a hose holder to be useful. I tried not using my chinstrap, but taping with nexcare gentle taping as my chinstrap clearly is making my nasal pillows not fix snugly. According to my sleeptracker pro watch, I woke up at 2:22 AM, not sure how accurate that is, but I have attached my revised sleepyhead data for last night at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/109690148@N08/11075973146/

My revised overall AHI bar graph is at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/109690148@N08/11076006216/

Maybe I should try out a hybrid mask?

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ReadyforRest
Posts: 136
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Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: My AHI is really low, but I still feel tired a lot

Post by ReadyforRest » Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:56 pm

My hose is too short for a hose holder to be useful.

The hose holder can be used with a standard hose which is 6 ft long (72") or with a Climateline heated hose which is 6 1/2 ft long or (78"). There are a couple of types. Both have a metal base that fits under your top mattress. There is a small loop at the top end through which you put the long hose. Then you attach the end of your short hose to the longer hose as usual. Here's a couple of links: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/arden- ... ystem.html
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/HoseBu ... ystem.html
They work great, and lift the hose away from your body, eliminating the drag on your nose pillows when you turn over. Routing the hose up over your head works better too. If you want a new mask, look for one that allows you to route the short hose to the top of your head.
I tried not using my chinstrap, but taping with nexcare gentle taping as my chinstrap clearly is making my nasal pillows not fix snugly.

Actually, you might think about buying or making (or have someone make it for you) a homemade cloth chinstrap that covers your lips. They work far better than the stretchy chinstraps that are being sold everywhere that don't cover your lips. Check out this thread.
viewtopic/t94050/Homemade-chin-strap--SUCCESS.html
Maybe I should try out a hybrid mask?
I bought a hybrid mask. I didn't like it. Leaks were off the scale, LOL. But some people like them. If you like the nasal pillows mask, then maybe find one that is better for you, and find ways to eliminate the leaks.

You might consider a different nasal pillows mask. The new Nuance or Nuance Pro is pretty good. https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respir ... -mask.html The nasal pillows are gel filled and the fit is much better. I had no leaks with it, the two nights I tried it. I wasn't crazy about the headgear design, but a lot of people like it. And everyone is different.

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fmj13
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Re: My AHI is really low, but I still feel tired a lot

Post by fmj13 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:12 pm

I got and tried a nuance pro for the first time tonight. Are these #s any good?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/109690148@N08/11228796965/

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ReadyforRest
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Re: My AHI is really low, but I still feel tired a lot

Post by ReadyforRest » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:08 am

Your leak lines are much better with the Nuance mask. However you have a lot of centrals (clear apneas) which can't be controlled with your machine.

We can't see your numbers. You need to post a picture of the left side of the Sleepyhead image. The part to the left of those graphs. It has the following listed in order:
Calendar of the month
Details, Events, Notes, Bookmarks
- Name of your machine
- Settings of your machine
- Date, Sleep, Wake, Hours
AHI
- Hypopnea
- Apnea
- Obstructive
- Clear Airway
Statistics
Channel, Min, Med, 95%, Max

etc.

We can't see any of that.

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Pugsy
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Re: My AHI is really low, but I still feel tired a lot

Post by Pugsy » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:14 am

Were you maybe awake during the night where those CA clusters are?
Are you still having issues staying asleep? Many wake ups during the night?

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