(SOLVED!) Hmmm...Don't Care for This

My husband poked me last night to wake me up. When he's done it in the past, I've been on my back so I understood what the issue was, but last night, I was DEFINITELY on my right side. I had gone to sleep that way and I specifically remembering asking myself why he was poking me.

I asked him this morning "Why did you wake me up last night."

Him: "You were snoring."

Me: "Are you sure it wasn't my mask leaking or something?"

Him: "No, it wasn't your mask. It sounded like snoring. You were sure making a funny sound. You were on your back."

Me: "No, I wasn't. I was on my side!"

Him: "Oh, I just assumed you were on your back. I never looked. You made the same sound you make when you're on your back - sounds like snoring to me."

What else could it be besides snoring? And how in the heck am I snoring on my side at a Min IPAP of 18????

I'll bet he was just dreaming that you were snoring

nanwilson wrote:I'll bet he was just dreaming that you were snoring

That would be nice! Since I started on machines in late 2009, he said I had stopped snoring and the ONLY time he heard me make snoring sounds was on my back. And until last night, every time he poked me to wake me up I woke up and immediately realized "damn, I fell asleep on my back!!" and immediately turned over.

Last night I was like "WTH??? I'm on my SIDE!!!!"

Is it possible that the sound he heard was a bit of rainout in your hose. Rainout makes a gurgling sound which could be mistaken for a snoring sound.

Your EPAP is low, and you have a big difference between your IPAP and EPAP (which I'm sure is making it a lot easier to breathe with your diagnosis). Could you suggest to your doctor increasing your EPAP slightly? If you increase this, you'll also need to increase your IPAP by the same amount so the difference is the same.

If this makes any sense: when we start using a bilevel for a patient who isn't tolerating CPAP or has hypoventilaton, we set the EPAP at what the CPAP pressure would be. So it can deal with obstruction. (New titration protocols tell us to increase IPAP for snoring though - but maybe increasing the EPAP slightly might help?)

Obviously you want to consult your doctor with anything though; you are obviously on bilevel for a more complicated reason than just OSA.

Madalot wrote:

nanwilson wrote:I'll bet he was just dreaming that you were snoring

That would be nice! Since I started on machines in late 2009, he said I had stopped snoring and the ONLY time he heard me make snoring sounds was on my back. And until last night, every time he poked me to wake me up I woke up and immediately realized "damn, I fell asleep on my back!!" and immediately turned over.

Last night I was like "WTH??? I'm on my SIDE!!!!"

Maddy, the other thought that one might consider is that you've gotten too quiet.. and hubby reached over to see if you were there? Particularly since the conversation occurred in the morning rather than at the time of the 'poke', you may not know what really happened.
Maybe you want to set up a little tape recorder to be running for next time? A voice-activated one would be super for that. (Yeah, I know, yet another gadget to fool with )
PS I wish I had slept so well last night. Not the case lately.
And i'm sure Pugsy or CF will chime in saying it's the Aliens, again.

n0hardmask wrote:And i'm sure Pugsy or CF will chime in saying it's the Aliens, again.

Well, it might be aliens but given Maddie's medical history here....I wouldn't go doing anything unless the husband reports the snoring is happening often now. I wouldn't panic over something that might not happen again.

She has been down the increase the EPAP road before and had problems with it and is just now going down the increase the IPAP road per her doctor's request. Given her situation and health issues...I wouldn't be doing anything for snores until I knew for sure they were possibly real and possibly a problem. Since she has a doctor that is very "hands on"...I would run any ideas about the snores by him first. She has a new doctor that thinks outside the box....take full advantage of that fact. She has a real keeper with this new doc.

Pugsy wrote:

n0hardmask wrote:And i'm sure Pugsy or CF will chime in saying it's the Aliens, again.

Well, it might be aliens but given Maddie's medical history here....I wouldn't go doing anything unless the husband reports the snoring is happening often now. I wouldn't panic over something that might not happen again.

She has been down the increase the EPAP road before and had problems with it and is just now going down the increase the IPAP road per her doctor's request. Given her situation and health issues...I wouldn't be doing anything for snores until I knew for sure they were possibly real and possibly a problem. Since she has a doctor that is very "hands on"...I would run any ideas about the snores by him first. She has a new doctor that thinks outside the box....take full advantage of that fact. She has a real keeper with this new doc.

Second this run everything by your doctor. It's all a lot trickier when it's not simple OSA.

cobra4x4 wrote:Is it possible that the sound he heard was a bit of rainout in your hose. Rainout makes a gurgling sound which could be mistaken for a snoring sound.

Anything is possible, but on this one I don't think so. I was having rainout badly last week (weather changes) and adjusted my humidifier to compensate. I haven't had any since.

sleepstar wrote:Your EPAP is low, and you have a big difference between your IPAP and EPAP (which I'm sure is making it a lot easier to breathe with your diagnosis). Could you suggest to your doctor increasing your EPAP slightly? If you increase this, you'll also need to increase your IPAP by the same amount so the difference is the same.

My EPAP was 6 until not that long ago. A doctor approved experiment (previous Pulmo) got me up to 9, but above that, I found I couldn't exhale against it. My ORIGINAL diagnosis was OSA and I was titrated on a cpap at 11. Doctor bumped me up to 13 and then switched me to a bipap at 13/6, saying I was unable to exhale against the pressure because of my weakened diaphragm muscles (just a little history there since I know you don't know my full history).

Pugsy wrote:

n0hardmask wrote:And i'm sure Pugsy or CF will chime in saying it's the Aliens, again.

Well, it might be aliens but given Maddie's medical history here....I wouldn't go doing anything unless the husband reports the snoring is happening often now. I wouldn't panic over something that might not happen again.

She has been down the increase the EPAP road before and had problems with it and is just now going down the increase the IPAP road per her doctor's request. Given her situation and health issues...I wouldn't be doing anything for snores until I knew for sure they were possibly real and possibly a problem. Since she has a doctor that is very "hands on"...I would run any ideas about the snores by him first. She has a new doctor that thinks outside the box....take full advantage of that fact. She has a real keeper with this new doc.

sleepstar wrote:Second this run everything by your doctor. It's all a lot trickier when it's not simple OSA.

I think you all are right. UNLESS it happens frequently, I would be better off chalking this up to the "aliens" you all are talking about.

Well, now I'm confused. My hubby still snores, he is wearing the Amara FF mask, using same machine as mine (PR S1 560), APAP pressure 7-16 and I thought since he was wearing FF mask, this was OK. Am I wrong? He doesn't have any visible leaks (I have looked), but just seems to be snoring with the mask on. I love the sound he makes (sounds like a cat purring), so I just ignored it but after hearing this about your hubby thinking you are snoring Madalot, I'm concerned.

Pugsy, if you read this, any comment?

Jen

jencat824 wrote:Well, now I'm confused. My hubby still snores, he is wearing the Amara FF mask, using same machine as mine (PR S1 560), APAP pressure 7-16 and I thought since he was wearing FF mask, this was OK. Am I wrong? He doesn't have any visible leaks (I have looked), but just seems to be snoring with the mask on. I love the sound he makes (sounds like a cat purring), so I just ignored it but after hearing this about your hubby thinking you are snoring Madalot, I'm concerned.

Pugsy, if you read this, any comment?

Snores are usually associated with a little flow reduction in the airway. Maybe small partial collapse that doesn't get any worse.
How much is the machine reporting? Does it seem to be increasing the pressure trying to fix the snores?
A little bit here and there isn't really a big deal and sometimes the machine may report a snore and not try to do anything about it if there is no flow reduction associated with it. If it is very much...usually a very minor increase in the minimum pressure will take care of it.

Pugsy wrote:

jencat824 wrote:Well, now I'm confused. My hubby still snores, he is wearing the Amara FF mask, using same machine as mine (PR S1 560), APAP pressure 7-16 and I thought since he was wearing FF mask, this was OK. Am I wrong? He doesn't have any visible leaks (I have looked), but just seems to be snoring with the mask on. I love the sound he makes (sounds like a cat purring), so I just ignored it but after hearing this about your hubby thinking you are snoring Madalot, I'm concerned.

Pugsy, if you read this, any comment?

Snores are usually associated with a little flow reduction in the airway. Maybe small partial collapse that doesn't get any worse.
How much is the machine reporting? Does it seem to be increasing the pressure trying to fix the snores?
A little bit here and there isn't really a big deal and sometimes the machine may report a snore and not try to do anything about it if there is no flow reduction associated with it. If it is very much...usually a very minor increase in the minimum pressure will take care of it.

My hubby has AHI's running around 1.8 avg. His pressure avg is 9.6 & his AHI last nite was 1.7, nite before 0.7 etc. He's been running good, very few leaks since replacing headgear. He had a leak problem a few weeks ago and apparently the headgear was getting too worn. He replaced it and leaks stopped. I have heard the snoring both with leaks & without. His snores are much gentler than without CPAP, but I will watch his reports a little closer to make sure he doesn't have anything else going on. He says I rarely snore & if I do, it turns out I have a leak, not an actual snore. My noises used to bother him (before he was on CPAP too), so he used to wake me to fix the problem. Thanks for the explanation Pugsy, I plan to just watch him closer.

Madalot - great topic, I think we learned something here. I know you have had a rough time getting started on your XPAP journey so hopefully its just a little snore for you too with no flow reduction. I know a pressure increase for you would be a big deal, you've had such a rough time with the adjustment to a higher pressure. Let us know how your reports are looking, maybe your hubby was 'dreaming' that you were snoring, since he was so used to you snoring before therapy began.

Jen

Madalot wrote:Last night I was like "WTH??? I'm on my SIDE!!!!"

Extra tiredness. Slight increase in fluid retention. Some digestion still going on from eating a bit heavier or later than usual. Neck in unusual position for a few moments. Tongue in unusual position (even on side). Slight congestion in nose, perhaps from seasonal pollen. Or of course, the old Pugsy's aliens or the CPAP fairies as stated. All are possible "causes" of occasional snores. But also as stated, "occasional" is likely no biggie; "often" might be another matter.

I say, poke your husband around 3:00 a.m. tonight and ask him if you were snoring and tell him you are on your side. Just for good measure to get him back. And to make you feel better. [evil grin and twinkle-eyed snicker]

jencat824 wrote:Madalot - great topic, I think we learned something here. I know you have had a rough time getting started on your XPAP journey so hopefully its just a little snore for you too with no flow reduction. I know a pressure increase for you would be a big deal, you've had such a rough time with the adjustment to a higher pressure. Let us know how your reports are looking, maybe your hubby was 'dreaming' that you were snoring, since he was so used to you snoring before therapy began.

Jen, I've actually been around over three years. My story is complicated, with diaphragm muscle weakness from disease AND sleep apnea. Since I started on machines, I've felt worse, in some ways, than I did before. I felt that treating the disease adequately was leaving the sleep apnea somewhat untreated. The data from the Trilogy is NOT geared towards sleep apnea so I am unable to determine the same things as those that use cpaps, bipaps or asv's.

jnk wrote:

Madalot wrote:Last night I was like "WTH??? I'm on my SIDE!!!!"

Extra tiredness. Slight increase in fluid retention. Some digestion still going on from eating a bit heavier or later than usual. Neck in unusual position for a few moments. Tongue in unusual position (even on side). Slight congestion in nose, perhaps from seasonal pollen. Or of course, the old Pugsy's aliens or the CPAP fairies as stated. All are possible "causes" of occasional snores. But also as stated, "occasional" is likely no biggie; "often" might be another matter.

I say, poke your husband around 3:00 a.m. tonight and ask him if you were snoring and tell him you are on your side. Just for good measure to get him back. And to make you feel better. [evil grin and twinkle-eyed snicker]

If I had to guess, I'd say what my husband heard probably WAS leaking, but it's hard to say. He and I made an agreement years ago about snoring (we both are bad off the hose) -- we could & would wake each other up, if necessary, if snoring was loud and disruptive to the other. I have NEVER heard him snore on the machine and he says the same (unless I am on my back). But I can say with certainty that he wouldn't have woken me up unless it was going on for a while and really loud enough to disturb him.

I might do a download and check that night to see *IF* Direct View shows any serious leaking. The graph might.

A one-time thing (or not often) I won't worry about. If he wakes me up a lot (on my side) I'll know something is up and need to investigate it more.

I have solved this mystery. I took a recliner nap yesterday and masked up. In my chair, I just do NOT inhale on the schedule the Trilogy wants and it pushes a breath. When I didn't inhale and it pushed that 18cm, it blew out the seal at my cheek and I'll be damned if it didn't sound like a snore.

This makes sense. If I inhale on schedule, I take that air in. If I don't inhale, there's a lot of pressure inside that mask and depending on my position, it blows part of the seal.

Since I NEVER have 100% PTB, it seems logical that's what was happening when my husband woke me up thinking I was snoring. I didn't breathe on my own, Trilogy pushed and my mask couldn't handle it.

What DOES make me wonder is why, all of a sudden, is this happening? The Trilogy has pushed these high pressures before. Still need to work on it, but at least I am pretty sure WHAT is happening.