Taping

archangle wrote:

kempo wrote:20,000! Good Grief! If that's a fact, you should be over at the shower forum warning everyone about this! There is no facts on the taping.

If there were people over on the shower forum denying the risk of slipping and falling in the shower, I might be posting warnings over there, too.

Oh, so you now have "facts" to present that there have been deaths from taping just like there have been 20,000 die from slipping in the shower and thats the reason you have been on your anti-taping crusade since you have been here. So give us the "facts". We are all waiting breathlessly, no pun intended.

moresleep wrote:In our case, I believe we valiant tapers should postpone our deaths as long as possible by taking what sensible precautions we can to address recognized risks.

I agree. I shall buy a bigger non-skid shower mat tomorrow.

kempo wrote: So give us the "facts". We are all waiting breathlessly, no pun intended.

Once again, the burden of proof is on someone claiming a medical procedure is safe, not on someone pointing out the potential risks.

I don't think anyone will claim that there is no theoretical risk from rebreathing air from a CPAP mask. The debate is whether you'll wake up, and whether the actual O2 concentration will get low enough to matter.

I also don't think anyone will disagree that vomiting with your mouth taped will be a really bad experience either. The debate is whether you'll be able to get the tape off in time.

I'm so sorry. It appears Archangle has finally contracted that dreaded disease notapeitis. From the content of ALL his taping messages, the conclusion is that it may be terminal. Tapers, please remember Archangle. He tried his best to educate us, and convince us of our evil ways. But, alas, we're just plain ol' tape fiends, literally slaves to sticky stuff. I hope we don't catch the vile vomitus maskus. And for heaven's sake, please don't breathe any of that terrible CO2. Trees will hate you for it. Also, It can be used for carbon credits.

People die every day in hospitals all over the world from "safe medical procedures". So what does that prove?

You can google how many people die from automobile accidents, plane crashes, boating accidents, etc. As a matter of fact you can find out anything you want on the net. The information is endless. But you nor anyone else can find an example where someone died from taping. The burden of proof is on you!

Like I said before it is a figment of your imagination.

My doctor told me taping is ok. Archangle are you a Doctor?

And by the way. If you get up in the morning and go to work every day there are risk involved. There are no guarantees in life. Life itself is a risk.

archangle wrote:I also don't think anyone will disagree that vomiting with your mouth taped will be a really bad experience either. The debate is whether you'll be able to get the tape off in time.

Ah, but there IS a record of a CPAP-related death caused by this. But it was while wearing a FF mask, NOT taping. So why aren't you mindlessly railing about those horrible killer FF masks? Could it be because the rewards outweigh the miniscule risk of this happening? The same applies to taping.

I think most of us here would rather worry about REAL risks than your paranoid imaginary ones (or "theoretical risks", as you are now calling them).

kempo wrote:My doctor told me taping is ok.

How many examples of really stupid advice from doctors do you hear posted here every day? How many doctors tell patients it's dangerous to change your own settings, that patients can't read the data, or that auto CPAP machines are dangerous? How many doctors say that the apnea data from CPAP machines is useless, and refuse to look at it?

LinkC wrote:

archangle wrote:So why aren't you mindlessly railing about those horrible killer FF masks?

I don't mindlessly rail about about anything, including taping.

If you wish to mindlessly rail about FF masks, or even to continue mindlessly railing that taping is safe, I can't stop you.

Remember, every time you mindlessly rail "I done it, and I ain't dead yet, so it's safe," it gives me yet another chance to inform the thinking readers about the possible risks. Thank you.

archangle wrote:

kempo wrote:My doctor told me taping is ok.

How many examples of really stupid advice from doctors do you hear posted here every day? How many doctors tell patients it's dangerous to change your own settings, that patients can't read the data, or that auto CPAP machines are dangerous? How many doctors say that the apnea data from CPAP machines is useless, and refuse to look at it?

I can assure you archangle my doctor has more knowledge about OSA and the treatment for OSA than you will ever obtain. You see my Doctor has OSA himself. He uses an auto cpap. He knows I have changed the settings on my machine to get my numbers as low as possible.

He has dedicated his life to it because of his OSA. He wants his patients to live a long and healthy life. When I told him I was taping my mouth he smiled and said that's fine. Your numbers look great.

The reason I trust this person is because he is not only a brilliant doctor he is a good friend of mine. I will take his word over any forum jocky who is pretending to be a genius and at the same time giving out bullsh#t advice.

Please, let's not have unseemly personal attacks on Archangel. He's given good information both on this subject and on others. There is nothing wrong with his advice concerning the potential dangers of "taping" and the need to consider and deal with them. That's exactly what I did, when I started taping. I read what I could find and was aware of the risks. I bought an alarm from Radio Shack that would go off if the power goes off. Later, I put in place a UPS system--these days, it's a large deep cycle battery. Archangel would probably agree that, for someone like me, who was unable to get a FFM or chin strap to work, taping with my precautions is a reasonable solution; but, even if he did not, we're still all on the same side here, even when we don't entirely agree on the best course of action. We're all trying to gain and share what information we can concerning this condition that afflicts us all...

I'm glad to hear that at least one doctor has forthrightly advised a patient to tape. Mine didn't; but, after the fact, admitted that many of their patients, like me, were forced to tape. A lot of time would be saved if sleep doctors, once a FFM and chin strap did not provide a solution, would tell patients to "tape." Sure, there are small risks; but, as was pointed out, doctors all the time advise courses of action with risks.

Okay, I'm convinced. After repeated warnings and explanations, your continued statements are beginning to make sense. I am swearing off tape. Now, I am on a mission to find a worthy replacement, something that will keep my mouth shut. Is the white stuff on chicken dooky dangerous?

SMenasco wrote:Okay, I'm convinced. After repeated warnings and explanations, your continued statements are beginning to make sense. I am swearing off tape. Now, I am on a mission to find a worthy replacement, something that will keep my mouth shut. Is the white stuff on chicken dooky dangerous?

LOL It grows good tomatos!

LinkC wrote:

archangle wrote:I also don't think anyone will disagree that vomiting with your mouth taped will be a really bad experience either. The debate is whether you'll be able to get the tape off in time.

Ah, but there IS a record of a CPAP-related death caused by this. But it was while wearing a FF mask, NOT taping..

Link, I was almost going to skip this thread as it doesn't apply to my husband...he wears a FF mask! Is there a link to this incident? And do I want to read it?

Following up on an earlier suggestion (from PhysicsBob I believe) to run a test using an oximeter, I did just that today. It's not perfect, but I started without thinking it through, an all-too-common occurrence for me. And the time using Nasal Mask + Tape with machine off is only 20 minutes, but I got bored. Anyway, my procedure went like this:

1. Put on oximeter and collect a 'lil bit of baseline data whilst hanging out (15 minutes).
2. Put on Quattro FF Mask (I know, completely unnecessary), mask up, and run the machine (Resmed S9--APAP 18.0-20.0) for 5 minutes, me laying on bed, all peaceful like.
3. Turn off machine, continue peacefully breathing until I remember that it is a nasal mask that I need to do the test right (about 5 min).
4. Take off Quattro FF Mask, rummage in the closet for my old Comfort Gel nasal mask, blow the dust off it, tape my mouth securely, struggle to mask up for a bit, succeed, connect mask to machine, then lay down abed again (a tad out of breath). This took about three minutes.
5. With machine off, nasal mask on me with good seal, and mouth taped to hell and back, I lay in bed breathing normally for 20 minutes.
6. Took off mask and tape and after a couple minutes, stopped the oximeter.

And here is what the oximeter data says:

An interesting experiment. But, to do it right you'd need someone to turn off the machine while you were sleeping and then monitor you for the next two hours (through a sleep cycle) to see what happens. As reported here - http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/message-b ... &view=next - an 8-year-old apparently did experience difficulties--with a full face mask. My worry is that stuffiness and a lot of other factors would figure in how well one continued to breath (and get O2) in machine-off conditions.