CPAP borrowing

GeorgiaPeach · Post by **GeorgiaPeach** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:42 pm

Hi guys - n00b here, reposting this as a new thread per slinky's advice.

My husband has been complaining that within the past few months I've started snoring terribly. Meanwhile I have recurring dreams of drowning, choking or otherwise suffocating. So I put 2 and 2 together and figured I might have apnea, but have been dragging my feet on getting a sleep study.

My father-in-law was diagnosed a few years ago, and his Dr. ordered him an APAP machine, so he had this CPAP lying around that he's not using. Curiosity got the best of me yesterday and I borrowed the thing. After lots of reading and tinkering with the mask to get it to fit I went to bed. Holy cow, what a difference it made. I went to bed around 10 and woke up two hours later ready to jump in the shower. I couldn't believe it was midnight - I thought I'd slept through an entire night, I felt so refreshed. I made myself go back to sleep and hubs commented that he didn't hear a sound from my side of the bed all night. I haven't had to take a nap today, close my eyes at a red light to get a mini-nap (yes I do that on the way to work), etc.

So I'm wondering if it's working well, is it a bad idea to "cheat" and just use someone else's CPAP? Could it do any harm? I'm thinking I'm in more danger without it - especially driving!

Gerald · Post by **Gerald** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:49 pm

Peach......

If you'll study the collective wisdom listed under the yellow lightbulb at the top of this page, you'll get a fast education on what you need to do.

Rested Gal.....one of the most respected people who post on this forum....."did her own thing". As far as i know, she never had a sleep test.....and is doing wonderfully. She is in inspiration to us all.

Running a CPAP machine is not "rocket science".....just use good common sense, intellectual honesty, and careful experimentation....and you should be far better off than you were.

Gerald

sleepycarol · Post by **sleepycarol** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:51 pm

I am going to assume that your father in law is no longer using his machine . Is he aware of the consequences of not using his machine?

Do you have the software to check your data? How are you going to know that the pressure is right for you without the data? You might feel better but without the data you aren't going to know if all of the apnea's are being taken care at the pressure the machine is set at.

There are a lot more knowledgeable people on here that can better answer your questions and I am anxious to see what they have to say as I have a son-in-law that possibly has sleep apnea -- he has all the classic symptoms -- and no money for a sleep study.

azaloune · Post by **azaloune** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:53 pm

Hi GA Peach,
Welcome. to answer your first question, is it dangerous? YES! It is very dangerous to use a machine that is designed to blow large amounts of air into your lungs without a titration.

I have no doubt, you might have sleep apnea, but, the reason these machines are to be purchased by prescription only is because they can be dangerous if used incorrectly.

I have no problem with a user knowing how to access the clinical menu or even 'tweaking' their own pressure. But, if you have not even had the study, why would you try this? There are other reasons for lack of sleep and snoring. The sleep study will tell the tale. While I am not a sure believer in the titration part finding your exact pressure, I am completely confident in the PSG indicating whether you need CPAP or not. Let's start there.

RipVW · Post by **RipVW** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:53 pm

I'm sure some of our forum experts will jump in here, and they certainly know more than I do, but I would worry that the CPAP pressure on the borowwed machine might be too high or too low for your specific needs. If the machine was an APAP (auto titrating), then that would be better, since they adjust to your changing pressure needs hour to hour, night to night.

I'd suggest that you pursue having a sleep study so that your xPAP therapy will be prescribed based on your pressure needs.

Ted

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:56 pm

SleepyCarol, GeorgiaPeach's father-in-law's doctor has put him on an autoPAP, that is why the CPAP was available for her to try out and experiment with.

And GeorgiaPeach, take a look at the top of that CPAP you are trying out and tell us what brand and model it is. That will help w/any advice others might want to share w/you. Also see if you can figure out which mask you managed to make work for you and post that.

I gotta say, gal, I "am" impressed w/what you were able to figure out and accomplish!!

Gerald · Post by **Gerald** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:03 pm

Georgia.....

Probably the 2nd most important thing you can do (besides educating yourself about sleep disordered breathing) is to be sure you are using a machine that gathers full data.....and that you have the software to read/analyze that data.

Gather data on your blood pressure.....and you might even try to get your hands on a recording pluse/oximeter....a machine that records the amount of oxygen in your blood while you sleep.

All these pieces of the puzzle will slowly fit togehter in such a way that you'll know what's good for you.

Finally, be sure to fill out your personal information describing the make and model CPAP equipment you're using. It'll help everyone make better suggestions.

Gerald

sleepycarol · Post by **sleepycarol** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:04 pm

Slinky -- I read it and it went over the top of my head -- . As my family says -- sometimes I am slow on the uptake .

Like I said my son-in-law has all the classic symptoms and my daughter has talked about his snoring, lapses in breathing, etc. -- especially since my diagnosis and it bothers me that he probably has it and can not afford to have a sleep study.

They have three children, my daughter is in college, and he busts his rear to support them -- he is a really good son-in-law and good father!! They have insurance -- but a really high deductible and copay.

I have thought about letting him "borrow" my apap but I hate the thought of going all night without it as I use it faithfully every night.

I thought that maybe with my apap and software that we could determine if he has apnea and then go from there.

GeorgiaPeach · Post by **GeorgiaPeach** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:09 pm

Slinky wrote:And GeorgiaPeach, take a look at the top of that CPAP you are trying out and tell us what brand and model it is. That will help w/any advice others might want to share w/you. Also see if you can figure out which mask you managed to make work for you and post that.

Okay, the machine is a Resmed S7 and the mask is Resmed Mirage Activa mask. I don't think I'll mess around with this machine unsupervised for long. I do plan on calling my insurance company tomorrow to find out what I have to do to get them to pay for a sleep study. My biggest fear with the sleep study is that I'll be caught on camera scratching my butt or doing something else embarrassing . That, honestly is the primary reason why I've avoided going. . .

Dad-in-law said the machine is set to a medium setting. He describes it as trying to sleep with an elephant blowing down your nose all night. When I first put it on I didn't think it'd help since it didn't feel like it was doing anything. I did discover it's really hard to talk or try to breathe through my mouth with the mask on my nose.

Gerald · Post by **Gerald** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:12 pm

Carol.....

You have good equipment....and the software to go with it. Contact Rested Gal and get her opinions.

You've got good sense.....If you keep the pressures low as you start out....gradually gather data to see how he's doing......and imitate what you experienced during your own sleep study, I see no reason why you can't be successful...... helping the father of your grandchildren. You could be the difference between them having a father....and not.

Gerald

Gerald · Post by **Gerald** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:14 pm

Georgia.....

It's sort of like going scuba-diving......without the water.

Gerald

GeorgiaPeach · Post by **GeorgiaPeach** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:20 pm

Gerald it's funny you mention SCUBA. I gave up diving in less than 10 dives this past spring. Hubs is an advanced diver, so I gave it a shot trying to join him. I learned I am panicky underwater and tend to bolt to the surface. Not a good combination with an already dangerous sport. I found the CPAP was a lot easier than SCUBA since it blows air continuously and you don't have to "suck" the air out the way you do with a regulator. Plus being able to breathe through your nose rather than being forced to breathe through your mouth is a definite plus.

Gerald · Post by **Gerald** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:27 pm

Georgia......

If you have (10) dives in your past......and even if you didn't like the sport......you're way ahead of the average person when it comes to helping yourself with CPAP.

You'll do well.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:35 pm

GeorgiaPeach, I think you'are doing absolutely the right thing for yourself, using a borrowed cpap. It would be best, of course, to go on and get a sleep study. But until (if/when) you do that, you are far better off using "cpap" at a "moderate pressure" (like 8, 9, 10, 11, or 12) than you'd be if you kept on putting your body through OSA every time you slept.

Good for you, for doing whatever you can to help yourself! Please check your Private Messages...the button at upper right of this page.

Gerald, it's true that I put myself on a borrowed cpap and then got an autopap and software...all without benefit of any kind of sleep study or even a screening. Worked great for me. Two years later I did get an opportunity to have a full PSG sleep study.

And here's my caution... in addition to the mild OSA I have, my sleep study turned up a second kind of sleep disorder -- PLMD (periodic limb movement disorder) totally unrelated to OSA. Luckily for me, only some of the PLMs cause me arousals. I sleep fine through enough of them that having PLMD doesn't cause me any problems.

BUT... say that the PLMs had been causing enough arousals to mess up my sleep stages badly and leave me feeling tired/sleepy the next day. I would have had no clue at all from ANY cpap/autopap/bipap software that that was going on. When I tried out CPAP for awhile, I might have concluded, "Gee, I don't feel any better, so I guess CPAP isn't doing me any good. No point in continuing to try to sleep with a mask on."

A PSG sleep study looks for more than just OSA. So, a "real" sleep study is the best way to go.

If a person doesn't have insurance or absolutely can't get a PSG sleep study, then, yeah... do what you have to do to treat yourself, I say. Just like GeorgiaPeach is doing.

Two links of interest:

Can Patients with Obstructive Sleep Apnea Titrate Their Own Continuous Positive Airway Pressure?

Powerpoint presentation at a meeting of the American Lung Association of the Central Coast - November 2004 - "Not Every Patient Needs to Go to the Sleep Lab" - Dr. Barbara Phillips (board certified in Pulmonology and Sleep.)

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:39 pm

SleepyCarol, I can totally understand your temptation to loan your son-in-law your auto since you have the software, etc. You "might" want to give some thought to maybe he could ask his doctor to script an overnight oximetry (they usually only run $35 to $50, if that, sometimes it can even be done for free - but don't count on that!).

GeorgiaPeach, the Resmed S7 helps. But that is the brand and the series that model is but not the model name itself. And I'm not sure if the S7s used the same model names such as Compact, Escape, Elite which are S8 model names. Check the machine top again and see if there is a little more to the name than just Resmed S7.

Or - try this: before noon tomorrow push the Left and Right buttons down and hold them for 3-4 seconds and see what comes up on the LCD screen. MAYBE if you're real lucky Efficacy Data will come up on the screen. If so - do WE have some information and advice for you!!!!

CPAP borrowing

CPAP borrowing

Best to Have the Sleep Study