Encore Pro software missing data - my email to Respironics

lilsheba · Post by **lilsheba** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:54 pm

ncore Pro is also not intended for use by patients. The software allows you to change your pressures on a prescription device, which is against the law.

Against WHAT law? And you don't need no software to change the pressure

Wow the secrecy they hold onto in regards to this software amazes me. I'm anxious to see what their "patient version" of this program is going to actually do.

Nodzy · Post by **Nodzy** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:57 pm

Den,

I'm as doubtful as you are about compatibility, guessing that changes they make in the code will be incompatible with existing interpretive software. And the amount of event and other data revealed by Encore Viewer could be lessened or expanded. Trimmed… would be my guess.

The software I want would tuck me in at night, wake me in the morning... ensure that I wake with a smile... and occasionally have coffee made before I rise. But I think that software is a ten-toe, rare version…. and I'm probably not licensed for it anyway.

Nodzy

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:17 pm

Why not ask them to add a data export module to the viewing software?

6PtStar · Post by **6PtStar** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:17 pm

TXKajun

I had to get out my glasses and magnafier to read it but I was able to read your comment. And if PB would get off their duff and produce a machine with exhale relief instead of a glorified leaf blower I would buy one. Resmed found a way around the patients, surely there is yet another way. Tongue also planted firmly in cheek!

Also you guys better quit getting the clinical manual (E-Bay may have to quit selling them next) or reading it off cpap.com since changing it appears to be a CRIME! Also tongue planted in cheek again.

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Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:35 pm

6PtStar wrote:TXKajun

I had to get out my glasses and magnafier to read it but I was able to read your comment. And if PB would get off their duff and produce a machine with exhale relief instead of a glorified leaf blower I would buy one. Resmed found a way around the patients, surely there is yet another way. Tongue also planted firmly in cheek!

Their not doing too bad, they are only 2 years behind the pack, maybe next year they will come out with a mulcher adaptor. Even their software is just a step above DOS.

But is the top two don't clean up their act and stop shooting themselves in the foot, maybe a "Leaf Blower with Mulcher", will be the Gold Standard Of Treatment for us. Jim

Nodzy · Post by **Nodzy** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:01 pm

This is my response to nonsense, I mean... to the first reply from Respironics Product Support.

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Nodzy's second email/letter to Respironics wrote:Hi [Respironics Product Support],

I appreciate the prompt, frank and enlightening response to my original email. It is pleasing to know that Respironics is resolving the longstanding need for a readily available patient software interface. I, and certainly other REMstar users, hope that Encore Viewer will be economical to obtain and at least as data-revealing as Encore Pro. Certainly it will include a data export module for multiple common formats -- right?

As for the problem of missing Encore Pro data that I related… I have attached a .pdf file, and also made it available from my domain. The .pdf file is also available at: xxx.b419.net/cpap/res/--------------.pdf

The weekly (7-day) .pdf clearly shows that two days of “Sleep Therapy Daily Details” are absent from the .pdf saved directly from within Encore Pro. Daily data for days five and six are missing from the presentation. Days one through four and day seven presented properly. I find no ambiguity about two consecutive days of missing daily data in the midst of properly displayed daily data before and after the two missing days. It is absent without justification.

The missing “Sleep Therapy Daily Details” data page problem is common and spoken about on multiple CPAP and SDB boards on the web. Almost everyone who has the software speaks of a sporadic but frequent day, or days, of daily data missing from view – not FIFO data that is capacity-limit-flushed to make room for the most recent daily data. It is that a most recent day or days of “Sleep Therapy Daily Details” can be mysteriously absent from view within Encore Pro, and from any file saved externally from within Encore Pro.

Yet, the “Summary of Compliance – All Data” page, the last page of the report, shows cumulative totals that include the missing “Sleep Therapy Daily Details” data. In addition, the “Compliance Details – Full Report,” the first page, shows that the report contains (or should) daily details for the seven days in the specified period, 9/3/2007 through 9/9/2007.

The problem lies in that the specific intimacy of the daily data charts are most revealing as to why or why not a patient is getting effective or ineffective treatment. If any daily data are absent there is a gap in what could indicate probable cause of specific patient responses to therapy, or lack thereof, on that missing-data-night. Complete and accurate therapy data is no less vital to a proactive patient than are the speedometer and other gages on their vehicle. "Absolutely neccessary" is the proper phrase.

In my humble opinion, the missing data does not relate to SmartCard capacity, or FIFO, but to one or more coding bugs whether in firmware, software or both. Anyone who experiences the problem has to wonder about the accuracy of all M-series data and its mirrored presentation. It also causes me to question the accuracy and consistency of therapy algorithms. At this juncture, I do.

As a note: While Encore Pro was not designed for patient use, I assure you that I have never attempted to change any settings through the software and would not do so.

Thank you for your effort, explanations and time.

Sincerely,

[Nodzy McNodder]

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): respironics, Encore Pro, CPAP

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): respironics, Encore Pro, CPAP

AdmiralCougar · Post by **AdmiralCougar** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:07 pm

Nodzy again a nice and eloquently written response. Can't wait to see what or if they respond.

Christy

Nelson · Post by **Nelson** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:58 pm

If you write to them again would you consider sending them a link to this thread.

I'd like to assume that they are aware of both the forum and the thread...but then again, I'd assume that they would be aware of a missing data problem and incorrect leak data on the LCD.

I think the M-Series is great, especially the auto bipap...but...this lack of professionalism is disconcerting.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:14 pm

lilsheba wrote:
someone at Respironics Product Support wrote:Encore Pro is also not intended for use by patients. The software allows you to change your pressures on a prescription device, which is against the law.
Against WHAT law?

Good question, lilsheba!

I asked the same thing in Nodzy's other topic about his correspondence with Respironics:

viewtopic/t24039/Respironics--Encore-Vi ... tober.html

HP · Post by HP » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:47 pm

I recall reading a few submissions of their "auto's" to the FDA. I do not recall seeing anything about the reliabilty of the electronic control system or software in the "auto." I also do not recall seeing anything about evaluation of the software that obtains information from the smartcard (and writes prescriptive information to the smartcard). Since recognized product safety standards for medical equipment require these evaluations when malfunction can compromise safety performance (functional safety), it would be interesting if we could access this information. I'm not holding my breath.

As far as the card reader software is concerned, the manufacturer only seems to want to draw attention to the patient use of the feature that allows the software user to change the prescription. What about the functionalities of the software that were aimed at the Dr.'s, DME's, etc. that:

1.) Provide the medical professional with reliable information about the patient's use of the medical device (false information is a no-no).

2.) When the medical professional resets the prescription, do we know that it reliably is reset as specified (falso information is a no-no)?

papoose · Post by **papoose** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:59 pm

Nodzy McNodder,

All this talk about what's legal makes me think about laws that protect consumers. Article 2 of the Uniform Commercial Code ("the lemon law") comes to mind. And the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act requiring manufacturers to fix all defects reported by consumers. You might want to check out the consumer laws and use legal terms in your future correspondence. Always works wonders for me.

Nodzy · Post by **Nodzy** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:38 am

Hmmm... where do I begin.

Rested Gal,

The law of which they speak, I believe, is “Buryem’s Law.”

In-part, it clearly states that:
"No doctor or other medical professional shall be questioned about their performance or ethics or lack thereof, even if they have a nickname such as, Dr. Quack, Dr. Death, Butcher, Burger-Flipper etc -- and not even if a patient is suffering obvious misery and is in steady or rapid decline due to being improperly diagnosed and improperly prescribed for."

And that:
"No patient shall make any personal decision regarding their own health matters, or any form or manner of change(s) in their health care, in the absence of the immediate guidance of one or more medical professionals, unless explicitly directed to do so by their coroner, undertaker, embalmer or crematorium or funeral director."

Well, I think that's the "LAW", in-part, that the Respironics Support Tech referred to.

Nodzy

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): respironics

Hosed All Night · Post by **Hosed All Night** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:09 am

What laws? First all one had to do is hold down the increase, decrease buttons and power up the unit. That unlocks the setting. Second, neither the doctor or Resperonics can be held responsible if the end user changes the settings from the original script. What's stopping someone from taking a whole bottle of pills instead of the prescribed dose? Same thing... right? My RT gave me all the manuals and a copy of Encore Pro. He said there is no legal reason to withhold the documentation. Besides Encore Pro is a crappy program at best and not worth the money. Its a spin off product... Rsperonics is in the business of sell machines not software. It shows too. Its a pretty simple SQL data base program.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:36 am

Nodzy wrote:The law of which they speak, I believe, is “Buryem’s Law.”

LOL!! I think you're right, Nodzy.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:28 pm

I keep reading that the settings can be put on the smartcard. How? I have encore and don't recall seeing anything like that.

Encore Pro software missing data - my email to Respironics

I'd like to know if the software itself is against the law..

Legalities