Correlation between leaks and events

https://imgur.com/gallery/D24Y5UO
(red lines added for emphasis)

I realize this may be impossible to answer, but I find it interesting in "shower thoughts" mode. I'm currently getting used to a new mask and have never had so few leaks, and my AHI is also the lowest, so the following observations seem relevant.

Looking at OSCAR graphs, as in the linked image, I noticed that clusters of events appear to be correlated to leaks. Any thoughts? What causes what? Do leaks disturb my sleep and change my breathing pattern resulting in the machine thinking it's an apnea event, or do actual apnea events cause the machine to boost the pressure and cause leaks? Last night, for instance, I have 5.48 unclassified apnea vs 3.79 hypopnea, so I'm wondering if some of the unclassified are false positives when I'm mess around with the mask or change my body position to eliminate the leaks.

(ResMed AirCurve 10 ASV)

It would be helpful to show pressure as well as Flow-Limitations.

I don't think there is a direct correlation between leaks and events, but there could be corelations between events and other items that can result in greater leaks.

For example, sleep stage (REM) often results in more events and the lack of muscle tone can result in mouth breathing causing leaks or different fit of mask.

Pressure graph can demonstrate if there is a link between pressure and leaks, higher pressures can definitely be related to events.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 11:23 am

See this thread for examples of what graphs we like to see...we don't need all the graphs that OSCAR gives you.
http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1585 ... eview.html

Is this better:

https://imgur.com/a/r1XuFJo

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 11:25 am

It would be helpful to show pressure as well as Flow-Limitations.

I don't think there is a direct correlation between leaks and events, but there could be corelations between events and other items that can result in greater leaks.

For example, sleep stage (REM) often results in more events and the lack of muscle tone can result in mouth breathing causing leaks or different fit of mask.

Pressure graph can demonstrate if there is a link between pressure and leaks, higher pressures can definitely be related to events.

Like this?

https://imgur.com/a/r1XuFJo

anobono wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:20 pm

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 11:25 am

It would be helpful to show pressure as well as Flow-Limitations.

I don't think there is a direct correlation between leaks and events, but there could be corelations between events and other items that can result in greater leaks.

For example, sleep stage (REM) often results in more events and the lack of muscle tone can result in mouth breathing causing leaks or different fit of mask.

Pressure graph can demonstrate if there is a link between pressure and leaks, higher pressures can definitely be related to events.

Like this?

https://imgur.com/a/r1XuFJo

Now your not showing the leaks, that's one of the things your suggesting there is correlation between.

But that graphs does show higher pressure during events, which is expected with an ASV. Therefore i think it's pretty save to assume that the leaks are probably a consequence of higher pressure and not events.

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:25 pm

Now your not showing the leaks, that's one of the things your suggesting there is correlation between.

But that graphs does show higher pressure during events, which is expected with an ASV. Therefore i think it's pretty save to assume that the leaks are probably a consequence of higher pressure and not events.

Sorry about the leak not being in the screen cap. I followed an example from another answer and forgot about them. You can still see the leaks in my post above, in the snippet, and they occur where the events are, which is also where the pressure spikes.

If i follow you, it's 1) an event is detected 2) the BIPAP increases the pressure 3) a small leak occurs?

anobono wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:53 pm

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:25 pm

Now your not showing the leaks, that's one of the things your suggesting there is correlation between.

But that graphs does show higher pressure during events, which is expected with an ASV. Therefore i think it's pretty save to assume that the leaks are probably a consequence of higher pressure and not events.

Sorry about the leak not being in the screen cap. I followed an example from another answer and forgot about them. You can still see the leaks in my post above, in the snippet, and they occur where the events are, which is also where the pressure spikes.

If i follow you, it's 1) an event is detected 2) the BIPAP increases the pressure 3) a small leak occurs?

Pretty much, except the ASV can also increase pressure on more than just "events", it will also increase pressure with flow limits and snores.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 2:39 pm

Again how come you ended up with this machine

Not going there. Thanks.

anobono wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:20 pm

Like this?

https://imgur.com/a/r1XuFJo

No, like this: wiki/index.php/Oscar:organize

Also, how to post images.

anobono wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:09 pm

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 2:39 pm

Again how come you ended up with this machine

Not going there. Thanks.

Okay, suit yourself. I can't help you. Sorry.
Have a nice day.

anobono wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:09 pm

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 2:39 pm

Again how come you ended up with this machine

Not going there. Thanks.

lack of cooperation reduces our ability to help you.

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:20 pm

anobono wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:09 pm

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 2:39 pm

Again how come you ended up with this machine

Not going there. Thanks.

lack of cooperation reduces our ability to help you.

I understand the intent of Pugsy's question. I also understand the intent of your response. However, I came here with a specific superficial question that DogSlobber addressed directly to my satisfaction. I did not ask for help in assessing my BIPAP's settings or evaluating my diagnostic, nor did I solicit any advice. I should just not engage with these types of comments, but I guess I was piqued a bit.

I will now fade back into obscurity.

guys? it's nothing mysterious. op explains in his other thread-
viewtopic/t183570/Favorite-tricks-to-re ... P-etc.html

anobono wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:37 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:20 pm

anobono wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:09 pm

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 16, 2022 2:39 pm

Again how come you ended up with this machine

Not going there. Thanks.

lack of cooperation reduces our ability to help you.

I understand the intent of Pugsy's question. I also understand the intent of your response. However, I came here with a specific superficial question that DogSlobber addressed directly to my satisfaction. I did not ask for help in assessing my BIPAP's settings or evaluating my diagnostic, nor did I solicit any advice. I should just not engage with these types of comments, but I guess I was piqued a bit.

I will now fade back into obscurity.

Don't be discouraged by the rambunctious (and unnecessary) responses of a few. They seem to be everywhere.
You have a very valid question and another poster kind of answered you pretty well.
ASV machine algo is designed to deal with leaks, alas with limited capacity. Once leaks are detected (unusual pressure loss), it adjusts pressures to compensate, however there are limits.
Occasional leaks (like if you decide not to breath, flow closed) a momentary leak could happen simply by pressure build up in the mask and blowing the seal, alas temporarily until the mask pressure drops and seal is reformed.
Machine algo can deal with this situation very well.
However if the leaks become too frequent and last long (like in the case of an ill-fitting mask), then machine algo can't deal with these pressure drops too well and having an Aircurve 10 ASV myself, I have experimented with this a lot.
When these leak events happen, I have noted that depending on what mode you are using (ASV or ASV Auto), the algo quickly starts to compensate by increasing pressure, however since the algo uses the preceding 90 seconds of your breathing data, it will continue to provide breaths at elevating pressure, unless the leaks continues past 90 seconds, at which time the algo runs out of data for the 90 seconds worth of preceding feedback from you. Now it will simply continue at maximum pressure settings until the leak stops (or is reduced enough for some pressure buildup in the mask) and the algo receives sufficient feedback from your side, in order to continue therapy which in turn could potentially result in elevated apnea events.
The ASV algo's job is to set target Minute Ventilation and stabilize it, so continuous leaks will interfere with that.

There is therefore an indirect correlation between leaks and events , in that when leaks interfere with correct pressure settings, then you are not getting effective therapy. This could in turn ;potentially elevate your apnea events, or most likely arousal.