I purpose the startup of a Think TANK. To End MOUTH Leaking

Stryker5777 · Post by **Stryker5777** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:12 pm

[quote="sleeplesssue"]I think I'm headed for a FF mask, but I so love this little mask I have. There are no pressure points and very few leaks throughout the night. I get really tired of how DRY my nose and mouth get every night. and how stuffed up my sinuses get VS how they don't get stuffed when I sleep w/o my CPAP. I have dysfunction of my vocal cords and difficulty swallowing, which doesn't help at all. My neck is still in spasm from a recent fall. I didn't reinjure the discs and my metal plate and everything are still fine in there. but I have to position my head "just so" to get pain relief and then my mouth hangs wide open after I go to sleep. the chin strap isn't working for my anymore. Last night I tried putting a large, square bandaid over my mouth and coated the outside of the bandaid with vaseline to make it more airproof. It helped, but didn't get the job done. I'm non compliant again. I can't make the air quit coming out of my mouth instead of opening my airway. I also have pain in my chest wall after sleeping with the CPAP. I have lost a lot of weight. my blood pressure is back to normal, and even too low now. My pulse has even slowed down to where i feel half dead sometimes. I've just been diagnosed with MS. I have thought of getting a mouth gaurd for teeth grinding during sleep. I used to wear one, because I do grind my teeth. I think those are designed to not close off your airway though. Can't somebody develop a mouth gaurd for teeth grinding that will shut the oropharnyz and leave just the nasopharnyz open? Please?

Stryker5777 · Post by **Stryker5777** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:35 pm

Hey guys,

I just wanted to post a quick note here. I've been recently experimenting with the hybrid mask to stop my mouth breathing. It would appear that my numbers are alot higher with this mask than with my swift. 2-3.5 ahi with the swift and a whooping 7- 11 ahi sometimes even higher. Still experimenting with new headgear that I recently got for it.

Has anyone had any recent success with improving mouth breathing? either with a full face mask or other method. I for a while used a DIY tongue mouth piece I think they may have potential for many.

Stryker5777

frequenseeker · Post by **frequenseeker** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:55 pm

Hi everyone -

How many of you have tried my DIY design? I have heard from quite a number that it does the trick, and it has been completely euccessful for me. I was a big leaker and used not only tape but a silicone sheet cut into a "dam" to add another barrier, worn between teeth and lips.
The DIY design has been great. I had an appliance made in acrylic by my dentist and it has been completely dependable. I use it with my Swift for the mask. No need for anything else.

If you read through the following topic, you may understand it is not a matter of having the tongue tip at the roof of the mouth or positioned forward. In fact, the best position is midway all these points.
The goal is to have the tongue relax and have some slack in it and then the base of it broadens out and prevents the air from entering the mouth from the back. It goes directly down the trachea and no longer becomes a force to be struggled with in the mouth.

http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/message-b ... php?t=4750

There are a few other related topics. Snork posted photos and instructions of a more refined DIY model, I can't put my hand on that link right now.
Rested Gal had all of the links archived. Maybe she will paste them here for us.

frequenseeker

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:41 pm

frequenseeker wrote:http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/message-b ... php?t=4750

There are a few other related topics. Snork posted photos and instructions of a more refined DIY model, I can't put my hand on that link right now.
Rested Gal had all of the links archived. Maybe she will paste them here for us.

frequenseeker

frequen, unless I missed something else, the pictures snork1 posted of the DIY he made are on page 3 of the link you gave above.

I still use mine whenever I don't want to bother with tape. The DIY works well.

More than anyone could ever want to read about what people use (or have tried) for controlling mouth air leaks/mouth breathing:

Links to: Mouth leaks - Air Leaks - Tape - DIY Guard

frequenseeker · Post by **frequenseeker** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:32 am

Thanks, Rested! Yes, page 3 has a slew of links you posted there too.

Glad to hear you are doing well - it is possible!

frequenseeker

Stryker5777 · Post by **Stryker5777** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:51 pm

Hey guys,

Okay this isn't exactly anything revolutionary but I think it might be somewhat to those who have tried everything and have nothing that works to solve our mouth leak problem.

I've been using tape with This Procedure:

One man's very successful taping procedure

However, I think that its important to:

A) Have a wide piece (3/4 inche above and below the lips), that goes from one end of the jaw across to the other. ( I've been using 3m micro pore tape)

B) I've been using an old chin strap, the black strap kind with the curved end and the hole at the chin part) over my taping and around beind my neck.

It would appear that this is succesful where just a strip across didn't hold very long or support the cheeks and the lips from puffing out.

Another area I've been working on is doing some googling for studies related to this problem. I'm beginning to see alot of studies show humidity is a big factor in mouth leaking. I've got plenty more to read, but the fact that jumps out to me is HEATED HUMIDIFER decreases number of mouth leaking/ breathing instances and decreases the lenght of them.

Does everyone have a heated humidifier? Just making sure...

Styrker5777[/url]

medicineman · Post by **medicineman** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:05 pm

Well I have been lurking as they say in the background reading posts for the last 3 weeks and can not begin to relate how much frustration this message board has saved me. I am into my third week of CPAP and feeling so much better. I have tried something similar to what Stryker5777 has tried with improvising the chin strap only I used something called a patella strap. I play alot of tennis and it is a strap that goes around the area just below the knee. I took out the small cylinder piece of plastic that was sewn into it and lengthened it with additional Velcros. It's width is perfect for going over the tape I use. I Velcro it behind the neck and it prevents the dreaded blowfish problem I was having with only the tape and secures the tape better as well. Once again thanks to everyone for all the posts it saved me an immense amount of frustration.

TheWife · Post by **TheWife** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:54 pm

Stryker5777 wrote:Those who have persistant high blood pressure despite XPAP treatment and don't have any other possible causal factors maybe suffering from this effect. Drop in oxygen levels is NOT the causal factor of the increase in one's average daytime blood pressure. A recent study confirms this by stating that people put on oxygen therapy as opposed to XPAP did not have the usual blood pressure lowering effect that XPAP offered. Despite the fact that their oxy numbers remained in the normal ranges while on the oxy therapy alone. I believe that the implications of this are far reaching indeed.

My husband is wondering about blood pressure, thank you for posting this. During his sleep study, despite the fact that he stopped breathing on average 25 times an hour, his blood oxygen levels never dropped below normal. Yet he has suffered from high blood pressure all his life, and is not overweight. He therefore doesn't believe CPAP therapy will help his high BP, but what you're saying is that, it should help.

He too has mouth leaks, even with a chin strap, just small leaks through parted lips, with teeth clenched. Some days he has it, other days he doesn't. That's why he liked the heated hose and the humidifier at max, so he didn't get as "dried out". He's into his third month of trying different setups from the DME supplier here in Canada, and he's almost ready to throw in the towel. I won't let him though

I think mouth breathing is a far more wide-ranging problem than anyone ever imagined. I suspect that exercises to strengthen the soft palate muscles would help. Last week I learned some at choir: practice making "K" sounds in the back of your throat with your mouth partly open. I'm sure there are other tricks. Sleeping on your back must make it worse too. I don't know.

Too busy with the family to volunteer for the think tank, but I'll contribute my $0.02 worth every now and then.

Theresa

Stryker5777 · Post by **Stryker5777** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:31 pm

Hey TheWife,

Its great to know that I could help. I encourage you to continue to find solutions that WORK in order to help your husband. Your very lucky to not have this potentially life threatening condition, but I know how difficult it can be to watch someone living with something like this, but you feel powerless to help at times. I think your on your way though to helping him and whatever you do don't give up.

Medicineman, I hope that your still doing well on this method. Keep us posted on how your doing, and don't be a stranger/lurker to us.

To you Guys and others, Please bookmark this thread and stop back every now and then...

I've been asked by some "how do I join The Think Tank Project..?". Well simply send a BLANK email to the

xpap_TTP-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Once your in the group you'll be able to communicate via emails and work with the others in the group.

This thread is another method of communication that we'll be using (SO bookmark it!!). For right now, if you have questions about the group go ahead and read through some of the earlier messages I've posted and feel free to PM (private message) me on this board.

Stryker5777

roster · Post by **roster** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:29 pm

Hello Stryker5777,

Thank you for a good thread. Here is what I posted in another thread:

------------------------------------------------

"I used nasal pillows for about two months but the mouth leaks were interrupting the therapy and I was feeling bad. Then I kept the nasal pillows but started taping my mouth.

The tape really worked well and the leaks were gone. However, I still felt bad. My sleep doctor told me it would be six months before I would feel good. Six months passed and I was still filling bad. Finally came to the conclusion that "blowfish cheeks" were interrupting my sleep many times through the night and I also was suspicious that the CO2 washout was not sufficient.

I switched to the Hybrid mask and what a difference - doing much better now and hope to get to a near-normal life eventually.

Since I had been using tape I was trained to keep my mouth shut. I had to retrain myself to leave my mouth open with the Hybrid to prevent blowfish cheeks. With the mouth open the pressure trying to leak from the airway into the mouth is balanced by the pressure outside the mouth. Blowfish cheeks are gone and pressure on airway is maintained. Sweet dreams (REM)!

I struggled several nights to get the right fit with the Hybrid but it is well worth it. viewtopic.php?p=113649#113649"

------------------------------------

Since I trained myself to leave my mouth open, will I be kicked out of the think tank?

Seriously, if you find a full face mask, such as the Hybrid, that works for you, do you quit worrying about mouth leaks?

rooster

Stryker5777 · Post by **Stryker5777** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:33 pm

rooster wrote:Hello Stryker5777,

Thank you for a good thread. Here is what I posted in another thread:

rooster wrote:
I struggled several nights to get the right fit with the Hybrid but it is well worth it. viewtopic.php?p=113649#113649"[/i]

------------------------------------

Since I trained myself to leave my mouth open, will I be kicked out of the think tank?

Seriously, if you find a full face mask, such as the Hybrid, that works for you, do you quit worrying about mouth leaks?

rooster
Nasal Pillows

No, we won't kick you out. We may decide to put you in the corner with a dunce hat for a little while, but that's about it....

The main objectives of the "XPAP Think Tank Project" is to solve issues that everyone continues to deal with in the xpap community. So no.. even if you've found a solution that works for yourself, no matter what it maybe be, your encouraged to stay and be apart of the group. However, nobody will force you to stay.

There's alot more to do, after we solve and publish our work for the chartered project. I want people to help other people and give back to the community in general. I think its only fair and just, to help out others so that they can improve the quality of their lives while on XPAP treatment.

The first issue that plagues so many of us is mouth leaking/breathing, and there's quite a bit to this, that needs to be addressed. After that we'll tackle another problem & see where we go from there...

Stryker5777

Stryker5777 (not signed in: guesting) · Post by **Stryker5777 (not signed in: guesting)** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:03 am

Looking at this thread that I started a while back makes me wonder what has happened since then....

I've discovered that

1. Keeping your mouth closed while sleeping w/ OSA is important. The issue comes up is when you reach a point of an apnea. At this point you find that being able to open your mouth a bit is a good thing.... This is why I no longer believe in tape.

2. Chin straps (such as the deluxe chin strap) are good along with mouth guards such as the Nose Breathe applicance. The deluxe chin straps can create the amount of tension needed to support the jaw while being comfortable and not slipping. These two devices will keep your jaw closed and your tongue at the top of the roof of your mouth. This will keep most of the air from seeping out of your mouth.

Jaw ligament tears and problems have attributed to my problems to a certain degree along with the amount of pressure that I need to keep my airway open. For others, any sort of chronic pain or acid reflux can cause issues as well.

Best wishes to all,

Stryker5777

Babette · Post by **Babette** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:37 pm

Great googly moogly, wish I'd heard of this before:

http://www.nosebreathe.com/index.html

Sounds like just what I need!!!!

Anyone have any bad comments on it?

Cheers,
Barbara

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:47 pm

Barbara, several cpaptalk members posted about trying it in the past. You can probably find their topics with a Google search type out like this:

Dr sue site:cpaptalk.com

I purpose the startup of a Think TANK. To End MOUTH Leaking

Re: I'll try anything I guess

Re: I purpose the startup of a Think TANK. To End MOUTH Leaking

Re: I purpose the startup of a Think TANK. To End MOUTH Leaking

Re: I purpose the startup of a Think TANK. To End MOUTH Leaking