Rainout Airsense 10 in "Climate Control Auto" mode

I have an Airsense 10 Autoset and ClimateLineAir tubing. Last night I switched from the Fisher & Paykel Zest mask to the "Zest Q" - the Q model has a diffuser to limit the air blowing out the mask on my wife. In this regard it works very well - I can't feel any air coming out of the mask.

That said, last night was the first night I experienced bad rainout. There were a lot of water droplets in my mask. I have the machine in "Climate Control Auto" mode that is available when using ClimateLineAir tubing - its supposed to prevent rainout from happening.

Do other people have issues with rainout with the Zest Q mask?

davecpap wrote: "Climate Control Auto" mode that is available when using ClimateLineAir tubing - its supposed to prevent rainout from happening.

... from happening in the hose.

From the Clinician Manual

Climate Control Auto
Climate Control Auto is the recommended and default setting. Climate Control Auto is designed to make therapy as easy as possible, so there is no need to change the temperature or humidity settings.
The Tube Temperature is set to 80°F (27°C) and Climate Control adjusts the humidifier output to maintain a constant, comfortable humidity level of 85% relative humidity while protecting against rainout (water droplets in the air tubing and mask).

Deep Sleep wrote:From the Clinician Manual

and mask).

and tell me, how is the heated tubing supposed to warm the surfaces of the mask and prevent condensation in the mask, no matter what the mask says?

as you gain more experience, and read more of what other people experience, you'll find that sometimes people experience water in the mask *when they're not even using the humidifier*, because the moisture in their exhaled breath condenses in the mask.

Read my posts here in this thread about various rain out issues. I think posts #2 & 3.
viewtopic/t94035/Pugsys-Pointers-3Deali ... -road.html
Note the part about exhaled breath containing moisture.

I don't know how much that diffuser will hold in terms of moisture but may be a factor.

In general...try increasing the hose air temp in an effort to keep the air in the mask warmer to see if it resolves your issues.

palerider wrote: and tell me, how is the heated tubing supposed to warm the surfaces of the mask and prevent condensation in the mask, no matter what the mask says?

You could ask ResMed why they say that, but I suspect they count on conduction.

Ambient bedroom temps play a significant role when someone is experience rain out in the mask only when using a heated hose.
There's 2 choices available....either warm up the bedroom air temp or warm up the hose air temp in hopes that a little more in the hose will keep the air in the mask warmer.

I this situation with this mask I don't know how much that diffuser is mucking thing ups because it may be retaining more moisture.

Pugsy wrote:Ambient bedroom temps play a significant role when someone is experience rain out in the mask only when using a heated hose.
There's 2 choices available....either warm up the bedroom air temp or warm up the hose air temp in hopes that a little more in the hose will keep the air in the mask warmer.

This makes sense. Thank you.

Oh....about the question "does this happen to other Zest users"
I don't know much about the diffuser and have never used the Zest but this "rain out only in the mask" thing can happen with any mask but seems to be a little more prevalent in the smaller air volume masks like the nasal pillow masks or the nasal cushion masks that just barely cover the nose.. I have seen a Zest...it isn't a very big mask so I am not surprised that it happens with it.

I think we don't see it so much in the larger volume masks (like the full face masks) is because the tiny amount of water has other places to go within the mask.

Doesn't really matter though...the fix is still the same...warm the air up somehow so it doesn't release the moisture when it cools.
In the case with these diffusers...I would also pay special attention that they are totally dry at the beginning of the night.

Deep Sleep wrote:

palerider wrote: and tell me, how is the heated tubing supposed to warm the surfaces of the mask and prevent condensation in the mask, no matter what the mask says?

You could ask ResMed why they say that, but I suspect they count on conduction.

that would be rather foolish, plastic is a notoriously lousy conductor of thermal energy.

more likely you're just misinterpreting an overly broad statement.

I suspect ResMed doesn't factor in there are people like me who like really cold ambient air temps for sleeping and like to snort water and use a mask that has a short hose which makes the mask even further away from the end of the heated hose where the warm air in the hose will start cooling as soon as it leaves the heated hose area.

It's simple physics really. The heated air leaves the heated hose and depending on how far it has to go in the cooler bedroom air there going to be a chance for rain out at the mask or short hose to the mask end.

Pugsy wrote: and like to snort water

ok, we know chunky is a frog... but, *eyes you suspiciously*

palerider wrote:

davecpap wrote: "Climate Control Auto" mode that is available when using ClimateLineAir tubing - its supposed to prevent rainout from happening.

... from happening in the hose.

Thanks. I assumed the heated tubing would also warm the mask. I see a couple mentions of mask condensation here:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/fisher ... -mask.html

Oddly, Lady Zest Q doesn't have any mentions of condensation - and it has many more reviews:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/lady-z ... sk-fp.html

davecpap wrote:

palerider wrote:

davecpap wrote: "Climate Control Auto" mode that is available when using ClimateLineAir tubing - its supposed to prevent rainout from happening.

... from happening in the hose.

Thanks. I assumed the heated tubing would also warm the mask. I see a couple mentions of mask condensation here:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/fisher ... -mask.html

Oddly, Lady Zest Q doesn't have any mentions of condensation - and it has many more reviews:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/lady-z ... sk-fp.html

here's the skinny on heated hoses. a regular hose will be cooled by the room air, and you've got warm, moist air blowing through it. what happens then is much the same as when you've got a cold glass of iced beverage on a hot day, water condenses out of the air onto the outside of your glass/can, etc. that's what happens inside the hose, if it's cold enough in the room. so much can condense that it'll even block the hose and start popping and bubbling if there's a dip in the hose between machine and face, or, that water can run down into your mask. this is why you'll see advice to put the machine lower than the bed, so the water can run back down into the humidifier and have another shot at getting turned into warm air and making it to your nose.

you don't have to heat the hose much, just enough that it's not colder than the dew point of the warmed moist air blowing through the tube, that's why many times people will say "MY HOSE IS BROKEN" because it doesn't feel warm, fact is, the hose may only be 75f in a 65f room, and 75 still feels cool to your human body temp hands.

now, IF you crank up the temp in the hose a lot, and it adds some warmth to the air, then maybe you could get the air warm enough that it could warm the mask a bit, ... but it's iffy.

a short hose/mask cozy from padacheek would work better for that purpose.

palerider wrote:a short hose/mask cozy from padacheek would work better for that purpose.

I know some masks have a short hose, mine does not. Are you suggesting I add one? How does this help with condensation? Thank You