Need a new machine

Hi all, my 2nd P&B 420e finally crapped out on me last night (after 8000+ hours) and so I need a new data capable machine. In the meantime I'm using a Devilbliss that's just bare-bones, which I initally bought as a backup/travel CPAP.... but I really need something data-capable as therapy's been a bit off since my weight has been yo-yoing a lot lately. Also I just need a CPAP, not an APAP.

I've tried to get my head around all the new machines on the market, and I must admit in the nearly 7 years I've been on cpap, I never followed any of the discussion around software since I was all set with the P&B SW.

So from what I understand, the following PR1 60 series is fully data-capable and will work with Sleepyhead software?? https://www.cpap.com/productpage/pr-sys ... chine.html

Would I need to get any additional gadgets in order to download data? My understanding is that I can just remove the SD card and put it in my computer to download all the data? And I assume that with Sleepyhead, I will be able to generate nightly graphs of which events occur at what time, and so on?

Also, does this machine come with a humidifier?? From the website description it sounds like no, but I can't make heads or tails of it!

Sorry to sound like such a newbie but between suboptimal therapy and some other health problems, I cannot think straight!

Thank you!!!

All PR System One machines can come with a humidifier.
Series 60 machines have a humidifier different from the Series 50 machines.
In addition they can accept a heated hose if you get the proper adapter.
Even with the heated hose adapter, they will still accept plain hoses.

Thanks JDS, that's good to know.

You need a card reader hooked to your computer via USB to read the data (I believe).

Echo, there are a number of data capable machines here viewtopic/t96672/Auto-cpaps-4-sale.html

Julie wrote:You need a card reader hooked to your computer via USB to read the data (I believe).

Not if your computer has an sd slot on it. I just take the sd card out of my machine and put it into the slot on the side of my computer.

On all the PRS1 series 60 machines the humidifier is optional.
There are 3 versions
No heat
heated humidifier
heated humidifier with heated hose, this one requires an 80 watt power brick instead of the standard 60 watt.

I would be inclined to get the 560 with the heated hose option. It is auto. you might find that auto mode would help you to tune in your therapy which you stated was not optimal.

So back to my original question, this machine is data capable & will work with sleepyhead?

Tino, thanks for the link.

Bwexler, I can't use Auto mode, so no need to spend extra money just to get an apap.

echo wrote:So back to my original question, this machine is data capable & will work with sleepyhead?

Yes, full efficacy data except it doesn't flag flow limitations at all. FLs are only available in auto mode.
Not a deal breaker but just wanted to mention it. There is a way to set auto mode to mimic cpap mode and not give up FLs if someone is concerned about FLs and wants fixed pressure.
You didn't have FL data anyway before now...so you may not miss it but I just wanted to mention it.

Yes, it works great with SleepyHead.
Windows SleepyHead version 0.9.3 is all you need if you have a PC.
If you have a Mac and want the Mac version then you either need Jimbos Mac build and add the 60 series Patch file or just use the unstable Mac build (it's just as stable) as it already includes the Patch so saves some extra work.

The machine you linked to doesn't come with a humidifier but you have the option of adding it during the customize phase of checkout.

I have the DS460TS and I like it a lot. I wish I had known enough to get the DS560TS, but since I didn't the 460 is a great machine and since you said that you can't use the Auto function anyway it'll do all you need to do. It works great with both Sleepyhead and Encore Basic software.

Hi Pugsy, thanks so much for the confirmation.

As for FLs:

Pugsy wrote:Yes, full efficacy data except it doesn't flag flow limitations at all. FLs are only available in auto mode.
Not a deal breaker but just wanted to mention it. There is a way to set auto mode to mimic cpap mode and not give up FLs if someone is concerned about FLs and wants fixed pressure.
You didn't have FL data anyway before now...so you may not miss it but I just wanted to mention it.

I believe that the 420 is indeed flagging FLs. The 420e flags various events, including "Hypopneas+FL" and another one called "Runs" -- I especially need an algorithm that can flag whatever those "Runs" are (if memory serves me correctly, it is a string of FLs).

See for example an old old sleep graph of mine (ignore the fact that it's working in APAP mode):
https://sites.google.com/site/sleepecho ... on_ffm.jpg

A pressure of 7 is enough to get rid of most of my As and Hs, but only a pressure of 10.5 (and now a bit lower) is able to get rid of all the FLs. That's why the 420e was especially useful, to titrate out those FLs/Runs.

Whatever new machine I get should ideally be able to flag those kinds of events.

What about the S9 Elite? Does it measure FLs as well? Kinda makes sense that only APAPs would measure them.

thanks!

Bama Rambler wrote:The machine you linked to doesn't come with a humidifier but you have the option of adding it during the customize phase of checkout.

Well see that's where I got stumped! There was no option to add a humidier, only the heated hose or something other special hose. Maybe I should check again when I'm more awake.

echo wrote:Whatever new machine I get should ideally be able to flag those kinds of events.

What about the S9 Elite? Does it measure FLs as well? Kinda makes sense that only APAPs would measure them.

The S9 Elite will flag (sort of) flow limitations but the way it does the FL graph is different from the way Respironics flags FLs.
Respironics flag the FLs just like a regular apnea event..easy to see.
ResMed does a graph that is hard to evaluate and IMHO not the best way to show the FLs.

If you buy the Elite...you might as well buy the PR S1 APAP because the Elite is going to cost more than the 560 machine costs.
We can setup the 560 in APAP mode with minimum and maximum pressure to equal each other and the machine will function like a cpap mode machine with one fixed pressure but will then flag the FLs.
You don't have to use a range of pressures in APAP mode if you don't want to.
It will allow minimum pressure to equal maximum pressure...it just won't auto adjust. I never understood why Respironics chose to totally ignore FLs in cpap mode. I understand that FLs are something that in APAP mode it will auto adjust pressures in response to the FLs but to not even flag them in CPAP mode doesn't make much sense...Heck, at least flag them so a person has an option to try to fix them with more pressure. But hey...they didn't ask my opinion.

Here's what a Respironics report would look like showing the FLs in the events graph. I don't have very many because I have the minimum set to eliminate most of them. This is a BiPap report...so that's why the dual pressure lines.


And this is how Resmed reports FLs in this graph and the higher the spike or more dense the cluster..the worse the FLs are.
I borrowed this from someone else as my FL graphs don't show anything much at all so hard to see.

Cool, thanks for the detailed info!

Ok 1 more (quick?) question - Resmed uses the FOT to technique to detect events, but how does the PR1 do that?

Thank you Oh Knowledgable One.

Respironics uses little pressure pulses when it needs help in determining central vs obstructive.
Small puff of air that doesn't even register on the pressure line...a little square on the flow rate/wave form graph line.
SleepyHead in the Events tab will also tell you how many you hand and you can expand it and click on a single pressure pulse to see when it happened. The PR S1 doesn't always need the pressure pulse...and sometimes I see one that is all by itself and not associated with an event which I assume means that the event fizzled out before meeting criteria.
I don't notice these pressure pulses...they shouldn't happen while awake unless awake breathing is confusing the machine a lot.

This example below...no flagged event associated with it. I suspect because it didn't make the 10 second minimum. Looks like it was close but didn't quite get there.