Some Encore Comments and Questions - ASV

Encore doesn’t seem to be able to load into its data base wave data from prior days.

I have noticed that if this morning’s data is loaded, then it won’t load in any wave data from prior days. For example, if I have not loaded each day for the past week and then try to load in the data all at once, only last night’s wave data is loaded. The detail summary data does load but not the waveform data.

I had a night in which I didn’t get to bed until 1:00 AM and slept for about 9 hours. I uploaded the data into Encore and could see all of it. That night I went to bed about 10:00 PM. The next morning, I loaded the new data and was surprised to notice that the 10:00 PM to Midnight data was missing. Encore seemed to have closed out the possibility of loading in any new data from the previous day.

When in travel, my work around is to have a separate SD card for each day, resetting the PC’s clock to the date on which the data was written, and then loading in that card's data. Change date and repeat until all of the travel days are loaded. This won’t work for me for a long trip ‘cause of the number of SD cards exceed the number I have.

I have also noticed that Encore doesn’t display on the waveform graphs much more than about 8 hours worth of data. When I sleep for longer than 9 hours, it truncates the wave data to about the last 8 hours or so. Not exactly 8 hours but close. In the summary report, however, all the data is shown.

Now for some questions about a recent night that, overall, wasn’t too bad. I’ve had much worse nights where the Patient Triggered Breaths are down near 70%. The report image is below.

In the Patient Triggered Breaths section, there are a few times where it looks as if the machine is in ventilator mode for more than a few minutes. Looking down at the Breaths per Minute section, it looks as if the ventilator rate is defaulting to 10 BPM during those times. So the question is, how is this rate selected since the backup rate is set to Auto? Clearly the firmware is selecting 10 BPM but it would be nice to understand why this particular number.

Does anyone understand the algorithm well enough to describe why the firmware is intervening at times when there is no CA, no OSA, no FL, and no HYP? I get why it kicks in for these others but don’t have a clue as to when none of these is present and it kicks in any way. Just guessing at the time here but you can see at about 50 minutes in, it’s in ventilator mode and again at about 7:55.



Thanks for any comments that might clarify any of this.

You are using Encore Pro 2.12...correct?
I assume so because you have a model 960 machine and I wasn't aware that any version of EncoreBasic supported it unless you have a different version than I have.
What you described with your Encore software in regards to the waveform does happen with Basic but not with Pro if you download daily.
Can you confirm which software version you are using...and if Pro 2.12 are you downloading daily or at least every 2 days?
If I download daily in Pro 2.12 I have wave form graphs available every day.

JDS74 wrote: Does anyone understand the algorithm well enough to describe why the firmware is intervening at times when there is no CA, no OSA, no FL, and no HYP? I get why it kicks in for these others but don’t have a clue as to when none of these is present and it kicks in any way.

It is responding to a perceived need that doesn't get flagged. What gets flagged is stuff that sneaks past the defenses.
No different than my machine increasing the pressure but I don't see anything get flagged because the machine actually prevented the impending event. So the machine often will do things but we don't/can't see why it was done.

Not sure I understand your issue with the missing report times....unless it has to do with GMT times and the software used.
The machine resets to a new session or day at 12 Noon GMT time...so therapy hours can be split if you happen to bridge that time.
The machine uses an internal clock set to GMT time.
It may have to do with the changing of the PC's clock...if the software is pulling off the PC's clock..maybe losing something somewhere. Most people don't change the PC clock with travel..so I have no idea what might be going on.

I will defer the PTB question to those that understand that function and your question better than I do. I am not sure what the Auto function does to come by its calculations for backing up breaths.

Hi Pugsy,

Yes, 2.12 is the version.
I do download daily except if I travel.
That is the only time I fiddle with the PC clock. Any other way and the older waveform data disappears.
All this same stuff happens with all versions of Encore I used in the past with my prior 750P.

There doesn't seem to be any other way to upload once a week and get all the wave data loaded.
I wish Respironics would have a user-selectable option to load all wave data and to display all of it in a day with longer than 9 ours of treatment time - sigh!

JDS74 wrote: There doesn't seem to be any other way to upload once a week and get all the wave data loaded.

No...no way. Encore is not very patient friendly but remember it wasn't designed for us. It was designed for DMEs and doctors and most of those people don't even bother to look at last night's wave form graphs, much less one from last month.

Sometimes if it has been a long time since a download (I don't download to Pro regularly at all) I get lucky with the 2 most recent wave form graphs showing as available.
But if I were to download daily I would have wave form graphs from every night with Pro.

Yep, when you do that, two nights show but the prior night isn't all there.
I think the last time I did that, it just had the after midnight data for the previous night.
I'm just a data focussed person, so I collect it all.

You do know that you can change the time parameters from the past week to the past whatever ..like 6 months...and get those old wave form graphs???

Therapy Data Selection mid to upper right...from the default which is past 7 nights to any time frame you choose.

Encore Pro pulls off the software time zone feature and not the PC clock.
Did you set the time zone in Pro?
I wonder if the messing with the PC clock is a factor with the absent hours.

I only do that when loading multiple days. i only change the date, not the time. The missing hours problem occurred here at home, no clock fiddling.


The exact circumstance had data from 1:00 am to 10:00 am on one session and 10:00 pm that same day to 7:00 am the next day with data loading each morning when I woke up. The data from the second day's upload had the interval 10:00 pm to midnight missing.

You can do a simple experiment. In the morning, upload your overnite data. Wait 30 minutes or so. Then mask up for an hour. Try to upload again. For me, each version of Encore I tried reported back no new data and didn't upload.
It is as if, Encore closes out the ability to store data when it gets some data loaded for a particular calendar day and won't add any more.

I suspect that if you pass the noon time, Encore might then load new data but I haven't done that experiment.

I also have a 960 ASV and have noticed the lack of wave form graphs in what seemed like a random pattern. Since my AHI has generally been below 3.0 I have not been diligent about downloading my data daily. I am even worse when it comes to putting the SD card back in the 960.
I know if the card is not in the 960 no wave form data is recorded. For me there is too much wave form data (about 4 Pages) with too few incidents of note. Unless I notice something unusual I don't even bother opening the wave form chart.

What I don't understand yet is why most of my AHI is Hyp. Maybe 1 OSA a week and 1 or 2 CA a week, but 15 to 25 Hyp a night. I also have several desat events below 88% each night. Non of this seemed to alarm the sleep doctor, I am not even sure he noticed it when I pointed it out.

Bwexler

I get the sme thing. When I was on an Auto BiPap 750P, I had hardly any hypopneas but quite a few ca's and some CSR breathing. Now those are gone and hypopneas are taking their place.

My speculation is the EPAP min is just not enough to keep the airway completely open but has to be low enough so that in ventilator mode, suficient air exchange takes place.

My EPAP on the 750 was 15.5cm H2O but now my EPAP min is 10.0 cm H2O.
The 960 is so fast reacting, that the hypopneas likely don't matter.

Anyway, that's my theory.

JDS74 wrote:You can do a simple experiment. In the morning, upload your overnite data. Wait 30 minutes or so. Then mask up for an hour. Try to upload again. For me, each version of Encore I tried reported back no new data and didn't upload.
It is as if, Encore closes out the ability to store data when it gets some data loaded for a particular calendar day and won't add any more.

Doesn't have to be in the morning...could be done in the wee hours of the night and yes for a while the second session doesn't show up in the download but eventually it will show up. I have done it.
I don't know why yours remains totally absent forever. It shouldn't.
Unless that second 1 hour session happens to fall within that Noon GMT time and then it should show up on the next day's report.